# Look for the union label **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644 "2012-11-02T09:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/21 "2012-11-02T20:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Bricker spreading falsehoods about unions? Say it ain’t so. I’m filing a grievance. Steward! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/22 "2012-11-02T20:08:53Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Don’t worry, he’ll be back any minute now. Not until he finds a non-union guy willing to say he felt unwelcome in New York City. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/23 "2012-11-02T20:12:59Z")
Another story disputing the OP’s lame initial cite: [http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/non-union\_utility\_crews\_welcom.html](http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/non-union_utility_crews_welcom.html) Some interesting quotes: Decatur Utilities, quoted in a story above about some paperwork that was needed: “Decatur (Ala.) Utilities, the third utility mentioned in the television story, has not responded to several calls for comment this morning.” “Bill Yell, communications manager for Huntsville Utilities, said he was not aware that a union issue had prevented three of that company’s crews from working in New Jersey.” “One of those, Trinity, Ala.-based Joe Wheeler, was never in New Jersey and is unionized, its CEO, George Kitchens, said this morning.” Some faux-rage from the right. I ask again, why has this been left in this forum? There is no debate. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/24 "2012-11-02T20:24:53Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > So once again we have the Right (in general) and \*\*Bricker \*\*(in specific) politicizing a disaster for their own goals? And once again they’ve misrepresented or exaggerated the situation? That about the long and short of it? Did the Intelligent Conservatives on this board all wake up one day (late last February, I believe) and say: “Hey, we’re well-respected at The Dope for our thoughtful critique of both sides. Let’s just piss that all to hell by becoming ignorantly partisan! All in favor? Motion passes unanimously.” WTfrickinF? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/25 "2012-11-02T20:28:06Z")
I have moved this thread to the Pit. But I have a couple of quick points to make here - the most obvious being that if a thread is not in the Pit, you have to follow the rules of the forum it’s actually in even if you’re sure it’s going to become a Pitting. That means personal comments are not allowed and flaming of other posters is not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/26 "2012-11-02T20:29:55Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I can’t tell if this whole fiasco says more about unions, the right wing echo chamber, the spread of misinformation, or **Bricker**. Pretty much all of the above. It’s pretty sad when a SDMB poster falls for a load of crapola hook line and sinker. Especially when the story basically turns out to be more or less the opposite of that intended; Instead of mean old unions refusing an offer of help, it turns out that mean old anti-union folks refused to work. Pathetic knee-jerk posting there **Bricker**. Keep up the good work. Keep up this level of fact-checking and there may be a position at FOXNews for you. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/27 "2012-11-02T20:40:54Z")
More statements, from a link posted by **Diceman** in MPSIMS: [http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/02/union-red-tape-in-nj-causes-alabama-recovery-crew-to-head-home/](http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/02/union-red-tape-in-nj-causes-alabama-recovery-crew-to-head-home/) > [@](#): > > Ed Hill, international president of the IBEW, said in an emailed statement: “It is the policy of this union and the companies we represent to welcome assistance during major natural disasters – regardless of union status.” > [@](#): > > Decatur said in a separate statement following Hardin’s comments that its crews were held in place in Virginia pending clarification of documents received from the IBEW that **"implied a requirement** of our employees to agree to union affiliation while working in the" New York and N.J. areas. > Decatur said that as it waited for clarification, “we became aware that Seaside Heights had received the assistance they needed from other sources. **To be clear, at no time were our crews ‘turned away’ from the utility in Seaside Heights**.” > Decatur said it tried to contact other areas that needed help, but \*\*“based on the uncertainty of union requirements that we could not agree to and the uncertainty of whether a resolution could be reached, we ultimately” decided to return the crew to Alabama. \*\* All bolding mine. So. I think we can all agree here, this doesn’t appear to be a case of “union turns away non-union crew” but more of a “non-union crew refuses to help rather than even run the risk of being temporarily affiliated with a union.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/28 "2012-11-02T20:41:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Another example of the ill-effects that come from powerful unions. > > When a union’s territory is so jealously guarded that non-union help is refused even under these circumstances, the union influence is not benign. It’s toxic. Hello? You there? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/29 "2012-11-02T21:16:16Z")
In all fairness, I’m sure Rush Limbaugh will issue a retraction on Monday as well. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/30 "2012-11-02T21:21:06Z")
Nah, they’ll just play it the way Michelle Malkin is playing it: give it short shrift and imply that the denials are lies. ETA: Or like the Corner and put all the blame on closed shop rules themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/31 "2012-11-02T21:21:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When a union’s territory is so jealously guarded that non-union help is refused even under these circumstances, the union influence is not benign. It’s toxic. Even if this story had been true, I don’t think a reasonable response is to simply say “see, unions are bad!” Institutions plus power will often have undesirable consequences, that’s why we have governments and regulation. If this had actually happened, it would be a good argument for a law removing union requirements / jurisdictions in the event of an emergency. Saying the mere existence of powerful unions is toxic because one union did something bad is no more useful than saying the existence of large corporations is toxic because one large corporation polluted and gave a bunch of people cancer / made risky investments they couldn’t cover / mismanged their pension fund and lied about it / sold products that they knew harmed people / whatever. Organizations will do what they can get away with, which is why well-enforced regulations are a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/32 "2012-11-02T21:31:27Z")
Seems to me that the Republicans have a two pronged strategy to try gain votes. The first prong is to debate and discuss the issues using facts and information to arrive at their position and try to convince those amenable to such an approach.Unfortunately this does not appeal to a large enough number hence the second prong. The other prong is to try convince those who who are too stupid to think or analyse, too lazy to think for themselves and are easily led by woo - there seems to be enough of these people to get the vote close. That’s why you get the transparently partisan and very stupid TV reports, they are not designed to be objective, just to appeal to those too dumb to make their minds up for themselves. If you can’t convince enough intelligent folk, then make it up with idiots, after all, their votes count just as much. No doubt there are a few republicans in the middle ground, ordinary folk who are dismayed at the levels that their party has dropped down. I presume the OP belongs to one of those two prongs, I wonder which one. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/33 "2012-11-02T21:37:40Z")
I bet Bricker forwards all those spam emails that tell you how spiders can crawl up out of toilet seats and embed themselves in your ass, or how if you forward this email to 20 friends and they each forward it to 20 more friends and so on, a kid dying of cancer will get a trip to Disneyland. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/34 "2012-11-02T21:40:02Z")
Even the OP’s source is backing off [http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/decatur-utilities-crews-home-after-issues-with-union](http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/decatur-utilities-crews-home-after-issues-with-union) > [@](#): > > “At this stage, it is not clear who is alleged to have turned the crew away and the company that employs the affected workers has denied the claim,” said IBEW President Ed Hill in a statement. “IBEW local leaders in New Jersey have reiterated what has been the long standing record of our union – in times of crisis all help is welcome and we pull together with everyone to meet the needs of the public. We have communicated this to the office of New Jersey Governor Christie as well.” > > The crew from Decatur Utilities attempted to look for work in other areas, but Hardin said based on the uncertainty of other union requirements, they made the decision to return home after being stalled in Virginia most of the day Thursday. > > Other utility crews from Alabama are still helping with storm cleanup. Huntsville Utilities said they were not turned away and are in Long Island, New York. Joe Wheeler EMC said they did not respond to New Jersey, but did travel to Maryland and headed home once they were finished ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/35 "2012-11-02T21:40:56Z")
What’s this? A Republican ideologue being gullible enough to be taken in by lies and misinformation? Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/36 "2012-11-02T21:46:00Z")
So, **Bricker** , do you apply the same rigorous and exacting methods to your work as a member of the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board as you did with this OP? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/37 "2012-11-02T21:58:36Z")
Bricker appears to have been full-on wrong on this one, so it’s easy to jump on the pile and call him an idiot, but I don’t think it’s fair to cast him as a stupid ideologue. We all have a tendency to believe news that supports our worldview, and this wasn’t some blog post, it was an actual news story reported by an actual news outlet. I can’t say I wouldn’t have repeated a story about Mitt Romney being awkward and out of touch if it showed up on KRON, and I doubt many of you can either. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/38 "2012-11-02T22:08:35Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Bricker appears to have been full-on wrong on this one, so it’s easy to jump on the pile and call him an idiot, but I don’t think it’s fair to cast him as a stupid ideologue. We all have a tendency to believe news that supports our worldview, and this wasn’t some blog post, it was an actual news story reported by an actual news outlet. I can’t say I wouldn’t have repeated a story about Mitt Romney being awkward and out of touch if it showed up on KRON, and I doubt many of you can either. If this were the first time Bricker had problems with partisan hackery, I’d be a lot more inclined to cut him slack for making this “mistake”. But it’s not even close to his first time. Also, I highly doubt he’s up at 4:00 a.m. in Virginia watching the Huntsville, AL news on WAFF. I think it’s much more likely he found the headline on some partisan site and didn’t question it whatsoever, which, to my mind, is also blameworthy. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/39 "2012-11-02T22:17:17Z")
Wait a minute, did the Alabama crew refuse to help because New Jersey workers are unionized? So this is not a case of union workers turning people away because the are ideologically rigid, but a case of non-unionized workers not helping in the time of one of the worst disasters in US history because they are too ideologically rigid to work with nasty liberal union workers? Did I get this right **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/40 "2012-11-02T22:23:29Z")
I’m with **Giraffe**. Let’s cut \*\*Bricker \*\*some slack. Let’s at least wait until he comes back to the thread to explain his thought process when crafting the OP and then give him a chance to clarify his stance on the issue. \*Then \*we can shit on him mercilessly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644.md?page=3)