# Look for the union label **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644 "2012-11-02T09:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/81 "2012-11-03T16:08:27Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > So we get “well, IF this incident happened”. You gotta kinda feel for the guy when he has to say “yeah, sure there’s a lot of evidence it didn’t happen the way I said, but IF this thing that didn’t happen, had happened, why then I’d be making a point.” It’s kinda sad really. You don’t have to feel \*for \*him, no, and you really can’t if you’ve had the distasteful experience of seeing him take the same damn approach to loyally promoting his party’s antidemocratic voter ID laws. It’s as if constant repetition will somehow make it all come true for him. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/82 "2012-11-03T16:12:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When a union’s territory is so jealously guarded that non-union help is refused even under these circumstances, the union influence is not benign. It’s toxic. When a political zealot’s position is so jealously guarded that consideration of facts is refused even under clear circumstances, the political zealotry is not benign. It’s toxic. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/83 "2012-11-03T16:21:01Z")
From the article\*\* Hamlet\*\* linked to : > [@](#): > > While the DU crew was in a staging area in Virginia waiting to see if its help was needed, an Alabama association of municipal electric companies — not affiliated with any union — provided DU with a 31-page contract. The contract, dated April 2011, is between a local chapter of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and a contractor. It does not reference DU or natural disasters. > > The Montgomery-based Electric Cities of Alabama told DU officials they “may need to be looking at some documentation and requirements that may be placed on our employees,” Hardin said. It looks like for some unknown reason, Electric Cities thought a contract between an Alabama local of the union and some other employer would have some sort of relevance to a different employer and a different local in a different state. And Decatur Utilities though that there would be some sort of non-defined affiliation with a union involved. And although readers of the original article may not have realized this , the newspaper should have known that this > [@](#): > > Derrick Moore, one of the Decatur workers, said they were told by crews in New Jersey that they can’t do any work there since they’re not union employees. is just not how things would work. Legitimate information doesn’t flow from one crew to another- rumors and misunderstandings do. If in fact the Decatur workers couldn’t do any work in NJ because they were non-union, that information would have gone from the NJ management (either the utility management or the state regulatory agency) to Decatur management , not from worker to worker. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/84 "2012-11-03T16:59:01Z")
It would really, really be helpful to know what “affiliation” with a local union means. Maybe it’s agreeing not to do work under conditions (wage/safety) unacceptable under the prevailing contract in the area. There might be a fear (how reasonable I wouldn’t know) that a local utility might preferentially call in outside non-union labor during a blackout to save money. I question whether “affiliation” on a temporary basis would somehow obligate the outside company supplying crews to institute a union on their home turf. We don’t know what sort of paperwork the outside crews were supposed to sign, but that scenario seems far-fetched. It wasn’t unreasonable for **Bricker** to post the link and ask for comments. Jumping to construe it as an example of union power run amuck was unjustifiable, and it should be possible by this time for him to recognize that the story’s been overblown. > [@Bricker](#): > > Even the more pro-union reports of the incident now appearing quote an official as “suggest[ing] that municipal companies might have issues working side-by-side with non-unionized contractors.” Now _that’s_ what I call “substantiation”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/85 "2012-11-03T18:58:18Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > When a political zealot’s position is so jealously guarded that consideration of facts is refused even under clear circumstances, the political zealotry is not benign. It’s toxic. Very well said. Thanks Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/86 "2012-11-03T19:51:45Z")
There still seems to be some apologists looking for an explanation of how this ‘misunderstanding’ occurred. It is quite obvious how, the story is a complete fabrication. The motivation is not clear, but some group of non-union workers was not wanted, and either felt a reason to rationalize that, or just wanted to take a dig at unions, and made it up. Those that live in the conservative dreamworld accept any story that portrays unions in a negative way and didn’t think twice, or even once about a factual basis for the story. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/87 "2012-11-03T20:06:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There still seems to be some apologists looking for an explanation of how this ‘misunderstanding’ occurred. It is quite obvious how, the story is a complete fabrication. The motivation is not clear, but some group of non-union workers was not wanted, and either felt a reason to rationalize that, or just wanted to take a dig at unions, and made it up. Those that live in the conservative dreamworld accept any story that portrays unions in a negative way and didn’t think twice, or even once about a factual basis for the story. And the pendulum swings the other way… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/88 "2012-11-03T20:31:43Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > And the pendulum swings the other way… As it is meant to do. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/89 "2012-11-03T22:04:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It wasn’t unreasonable for **Bricker** to post the link and ask for comments. Jumping to construe it as an example of union power run amuck was unjustifiable, and it should be possible by this time for him to recognize that the story’s been overblown. And I do. The latest set of updates make pretty clear that the original story was badly mischaracerized. I was completely in the wrong. Apologies for the misinformation, and for my take on it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/90 "2012-11-03T22:25:26Z")
Thanks, Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/91 "2012-11-03T22:35:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I do. > > The latest set of updates make pretty clear that the original story was badly mischaracerized. > > I was completely in the wrong. > > Apologies for the misinformation, and for my take on it. Good job, mate. Don’t agree with your politics at all, but you manned up. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/92 "2012-11-04T00:01:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I do. > > The latest set of updates make pretty clear that the original story was badly mischaracerized. > > I was completely in the wrong. > > Apologies for the misinformation, and for my take on it. And foolish. Don’t forget foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/93 "2012-11-04T00:09:03Z")
Presented for your perusal - [http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/shock-audio-ny-union-members-shout-scabs-and-scumbags-at-visiting-utility-crews](http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/shock-audio-ny-union-members-shout-scabs-and-scumbags-at-visiting-utility-crews) A tape, allegedly of union utility workers yelling “scab” and “scumbag” at visiting utility workers in NY. It’s linked to a Hannity show, so I’m sure most of you will immediately attack it’s validity, but I’d thought I’d throw it in here for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/94 "2012-11-04T00:33:13Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Presented for your perusal - [http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/shock-audio-ny-union-members-shout-scabs-and-scumbags-at-visiting-utility-crews](http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/shock-audio-ny-union-members-shout-scabs-and-scumbags-at-visiting-utility-crews) > > A tape, allegedly of union utility workers yelling “scab” and “scumbag” at visiting utility workers in NY. It’s linked to a Hannity show, so I’m sure most of you will immediately attack it’s validity, but I’d thought I’d throw it in here for discussion. Did you see the update at your link? > [@](#): > > The Daily Caller has learned that the audio Sean Hannity played during his Friday, Nov. 2 broadcast was taken from a 2011 union protest against replacement workers during a Verizon strike. A YouTube video of the protest carries a description naming the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, local 827, as the source of the comments. That union local is based in East Windsor, N.J. > > The Daily Caller regrets compounding the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/95 "2012-11-04T00:46:15Z")
I will probably never understand why conservatives continue to listen to and believe sources that lie to them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/96 "2012-11-04T01:30:26Z")
Like second marriages, the triumph of hope over experience. But kudos for the _Daily Caller_ for calling out the Great Giant Head. (There! That should take care of my non-partisan cred for about a year or so…) ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/97 "2012-11-04T01:44:58Z")
Cheers, **Bricker**. Now we wait for Sean Hannity’s incoming mea culpa… or at least **Sateryn** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/98 "2012-11-04T01:54:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I do. > > The latest set of updates make pretty clear that the original story was badly mischaracerized. > > I was completely in the wrong. > > Apologies for the misinformation, and for my take on it. Seems like only yesterday, you did very much the same thing in a thread about Planned Parenthood and mammograms. Or the whole Cuccinelli and climategate stuff. I, personally, have stopped expecting you to try and limit your partisan hackery, but at least there’s some here who expect more from you. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/99 "2012-11-04T01:56:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ok. > > You tell me: what, if anything, happened? > > I will accept uncritically your version of this story. Pretty sure you TOLD US what was happening and when discrepancies were easily discovered you backtracked for us to prove our claim. So fucking sad. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644/100 "2012-11-04T02:04:05Z")
Read down the thread, nevermind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-for-the-union-label/639644.md?page=6)