# Look, here's the Straight Dope on Political Correctness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792 "2016-01-21T17:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/1 "2016-01-21T17:01:01Z")
As [Paul Rosenberg writes](http://www.salon.com/2016/01/17/this_is_donald_trumps_biggest_fiction_and_the_engine_of_his_insane_rage_machine/), recently Megyn Kelly challenged Donald Trump on his record of saying disparaging things about women. Trump replied only with, “The big problem this country has is being politically correct.” Otherwise, he dismissed the whole subject. Which is what the whole “PC” thing is **for.** > [@](#): > > . . . That interchange—using the charge of “political correctness” to silence any further questioning or debate, particularly in the face of specific allegations—sums up the whole GOP presidential campaign in a nutshell, although as Dana Milbank recently noted, GOP candidates have since invoked “political correctness” when speaking about (or running away from) every issue under the sun. > > The Megyn Kelly interchange made this blindingly clear. Trump’s answer to her question was essentially “Shut up!” And it was hardly unique. As Milbank wrote, “GOP candidates are now using the ‘politically correct’ label to shut down debate—exactly what conservatives complained politically correct liberals were doing in the first place,” which is hardly a surprise, since that’s been the very purpose of the label ever since conservatives stole it in the late 1980s. > > In the early 1990s, education writer Herbert Kohl explained that he knew the phrase from the Jewish working-class block he grew up on in the 1940s and ’50s, where it was used by egalitarian socialists to ridicule authoritarian Communists, most notably for their blind support of the Hitler-Stalin pact. “The term ‘politically correct’ was used disparagingly to refer to someone whose loyalty to the CP line overrode compassion and led to bad politics,” Kohl recalled. “It was used by Socialists against Communists, and was meant to separate out Socialists who believed in equalitarian moral ideas from dogmatic Communists who would advocate and defend party positions regardless of their moral substance.” > > But decades later, the term was turned upside-down: > > > [@](#): > > > > Given that history, it was surprising to hear right-wing intellectuals in the 1990s using the phrase “politically correct” to disparage students and professors who advocate multiculturalism and are willing to confront racism, sexism, or homophobia at the university…. The implication of these accusations is that people calling for compliance with anti-sexist and anti-racist education today are similar to the Communist party hard-liners who insisted on compliance with the “correct” line on the Hitler-Stalin pact. It is a clever ploy on the part of neoconservatives, a number of whom were former CP members and know how the phrase “politically correct” was used in the past, _to insinuate that egalitarian democratic ideas are actually authoritarian, orthodox, and Communist-influenced_ when they oppose the right of people to be racist, sexist, and homophobic. [Emphasis added.] We can have fun with PC jokes – “I’m not broke, I’m financially challenged!” – but the above is what the whole thing comes down to – that, and nothing at all more. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/2 "2016-01-21T17:12:47Z")
Look, this meme and complaints about it have been done to death repeatedly here. Look, it could just as well be argued that instances of people being charged with racism, sexism, microaggressions etc. are attempts to shut down debate/expression of ideas. And such arguments of “suppression” are often [just as dubious](http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbdkt7h6fF1qenuw9o1_500.png). Helpful hint: it is not really necessary to create multiple GD thread titles starting with the word “Look”.\* i.e. “Look, Islam is not the enemy”. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/3 "2016-01-21T17:15:42Z")
Look, PC is also used as a pretext for authoritarians to shut down the free speech of others. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/4 "2016-01-21T17:18:32Z")
Let’s face it, some people are going to push back against social change and “too PC” is just their current catch phrase. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/5 "2016-01-21T17:21:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Let’s face it, some people are going to push back against social change and “too PC” is just their current catch phrase. Why do they need a catch phrase? Wouldn’t argument do? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/6 "2016-01-21T17:25:14Z")
It’s my opinion political correctness is a double edged sword. The main benefits of PC is that it stopped many of the most offensive words and terms commonly used for minorities pre 1980’s. As with all political movements(and it was partly political) it was used & abused as a tool against political opponents. The misuse of political correctness culminated in the Rotherham scandal here in the UK. If political correctness can be misused in the UK and Cologne to hide rape and sexual assault it can be misused in the US political arena too. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/7 "2016-01-21T17:26:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do they need a catch phrase? Wouldn’t argument do? Sure, if they had any. “I don’t like it” isn’t going to get them too far. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/8 "2016-01-21T17:27:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do they need a catch phrase? Wouldn’t argument do? “Wouldn’t argument do?” implies a) an argument is easier than a catch phrase and b) they never make an argument. Both are untrue even if you think their arguments are flimsy. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/9 "2016-01-21T17:29:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do they need a catch phrase? Wouldn’t argument do? And if we’re going to have a catch phrase, couldn’t it be something fun like “Hey, don’t blame daddy!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/10 "2016-01-21T17:36:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > “Wouldn’t argument do?” implies a) an argument is easier than a catch phrase and b) they never make an argument. Both are untrue even if you think their arguments are flimsy. Nearer the mark would be “Wouldn’t argument do – if they were confident in their arguments?” And I never seem to hear any such confidence, as distinct from certainty. Kelly challenged Trump, “You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting.” He didn’t argue they deserved it, he simply swept the whole subject off the table by invoking “PC.” Never have I heard a single “argument” against, e.g., same-sex marriage that does not come down to “I don’t like it” or “Because God says so.” Racists do have actual “scientific racism” arguments, but they don’t dare use them in public very much and for good reason; such arguments always fall apart when closely examined. Dog-whistles have not enough actual content to facilitate close examination. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/11 "2016-01-21T17:37:52Z")
Agitators also use PC as a shield to mask regressive agendas. From _Radical_ by Maajid Nawaz: \*"The student affairs manager was a chap called Dave Gomer. He was the point of contact between the college authorities and students. A friendly, affable, well-meaning guy, his politics were forged in an earlier era, a time when student protests were about sit-ins and strikes and occupying the Student Union. To someone of Dave’s generation, student protest was ‘kids being kids’ and a healthy part of someone’s political education. As you can imagine, we ran circles around that man. Unlike the student protests in the 1960s, by using religion and multiculturalism as a cover, we brought an entirely foreign lexicon to the table. We knowingly presented political demands disguised as religion and multiculturalism, and deliberately labelled any objection to our demands as racism and bigotry".\* FYI - Nawaz was a recruiter for Islamist organisation Hizb-ut-Tahrir. He now runs an anti-Islamism think-tank. Radical is his autobiography. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/12 "2016-01-21T17:50:30Z")
Look, insulting someone is not an argument. That doesn’t mean there should be room for insults and demanding that the sphere of discourse be without insult is the problem being referred to. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/13 "2016-01-21T17:54:14Z")
I’m just really upset that I forgot to start my previous post with “Look”. Could a mod edit it for me? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/14 "2016-01-21T18:07:12Z")
As I said in another thread, there’s no political authority behind political correctness. We don’t live in the Soviet Union. It’s just social mores. Saying you shouldn’t call women bitches is like saying you shouldn’t pick your nose in public. They’re rules about what society finds offensive. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/15 "2016-01-21T18:23:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nearer the mark would be “Wouldn’t argument do – if they were confident in their arguments?” And I never seem to hear any such confidence, as distinct from certainty. Kelly challenged Trump, “You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting.” He didn’t argue they deserved it, he simply swept the whole subject off the table by invoking “PC.” Never have I heard a single “argument” against, e.g., same-sex marriage that does not come down to “I don’t like it” or “Because God says so.” Racists do have actual “scientific racism” arguments, but they don’t dare use them in public very much and for good reason; such arguments always fall apart when closely examined. Dog-whistles have not enough actual content to facilitate close examination. In a world inhabited by a rational species with equal knowledge and information processing ability and no hidden motives, yes, argument would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/16 "2016-01-21T18:25:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As I said in another thread, there’s no political authority behind political correctness. We don’t live in the Soviet Union. It’s just social mores. > > Saying you shouldn’t call women bitches is like saying you shouldn’t pick your nose in public. They’re rules about what society finds offensive. And that’s not entirely accurate. Public universities have sanctioned people for speech. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/17 "2016-01-21T18:39:04Z")
I agree with Trump about this (at least as quoted in the OP). The entire question directed at him was pure PC. "_You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals_”. Why is calling women he doesn’t like by those names categorized as misogynistic, while calling men he doesn’t like by those or similar names just treated as insults against those specific men? It amounts to an attempt to effectively treat women as a specially protected class, who can insult others but cannot be insulted themselves, via political correctness. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/18 "2016-01-21T18:47:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The entire question directed at him was pure PC. "_You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals_”. Why is calling women he doesn’t like by those names categorized as misogynistic, while calling men he doesn’t like by those or similar names just treated as insults against those specific men? Because the former, and not the latter, are characteristic of historic patterns of misogyny, as you know. If he had hurled such insults at both African-Americans and whites, only the former would be racist; same reasons. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/19 "2016-01-21T18:48:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree with Trump about this (at least as quoted in the OP). > > The entire question directed at him was pure PC. "_You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals_”. Why is calling women he doesn’t like by those names categorized as misogynistic, while calling men he doesn’t like by those or similar names just treated as insults against those specific men? It amounts to an attempt to effectively treat women as a specially protected class, who can insult others but cannot be insulted themselves, via political correctness. I don’t know that trump has a history of calling men those same names. Looking at this with no background info, if he has a habit of using disparaging insults against women, and women only, that supports an accusation of misogyny. Maybe his response to Meghan could have been, “I call lots of people those names, men and women. I’m an insult machine, not a misogynist!” That may have been a valid response. Instead, he rejected the _validity_ of the question, as if there’s no way that calling women disparaging names could ever be an issue for anyone not worried about political correctness. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/20 "2016-01-21T18:48:52Z")
There’s nothing wrong with being politically correct. I’m PC, I try to watch what I say and not insult people undeservingly. I’ll insult people who I think deserve it, or whose station in life gives them a pretty good insulation to words (that’s why comedy punches up, not down). Its absolutely PC to tell Trump to shut up when he insults women and you know what? _There is nothing wrong with that at all_ Smart people can figure out where the line between shutting down discussion, which is what Trump claims, and actually just pointlessly insulting people. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792.md?page=2)