# Look, here's the Straight Dope on Political Correctness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792 "2016-01-21T17:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/101 "2016-01-22T03:42:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Ok. I kind of agree with that. Some people take it too far, though. That’s all I am saying. Yes, but, that is not the point. After hundreds of years of whit men running and controlling everything and suppressing/ oppressing everyone else, it’s probably going to take a few (2 or 3) decades of taking things in the other direction to correct things. If it is still like this in 20 years, then, go ahead, complain. up until then it looks… immature and impatient. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/102 "2016-01-22T03:54:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes, but, that is not the point. > > After hundreds of years of whit men running and controlling everything and suppressing/ oppressing everyone else, it’s probably going to take a few (2 or 3) decades of taking things in the other direction to correct things. If it is still like this in 20 years, then, go ahead, complain. up until then it looks… immature and impatient. Now you’ve gone of the rails, just when I was agreeing with you. Who is being oppressed, in America, in 2016? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/103 "2016-01-22T04:02:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Now you’ve gone of the rails, just when I was agreeing with you. Who is being oppressed, in America, in 2016? No one. Some people are at a disadvantage. No one is being oppressed. But up until the 1990’s women and blacks and other minorities did face much larger discrimination and derogatory treatment in the work place than they do now, in 2016. And even in 2016 it still happens at times. Political Correctness has only reached full strength within the last, lets say, 10 years. Before that it was growing in force but not as strong as it is now. Hence, 20 or 30 years, including the past decade, to correct 100’s of years of bad habits and attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/104 "2016-01-22T04:51:36Z")
> [@andros](#): > > > [@slash2k](#): > > > > A woman being labeled ‘cunt’ is being labeled as fit only to spread her legs for a man; she has no other characteristics worthy of mention. She’s not even really a person, just a convenient receptacle for a penis. What insult aimed at men carries that same denotation or connotation? > > “Dick.” > > Or was that too obvious? Nope, ‘dick’ has nothing like the same connotation. Even when considered purely in a sexual sense, the penis and the man it is attached to have an active role. ‘Cunt,’ however, connotes the woman spreads her legs (willingly or unwillingly makes no difference), but she certainly has no active role, no independent action or decision-making authority. She just has to take whatever he chooses to dish out, because she is nothing but a receptacle. The other similar words likewise reflect Woman as the object of _ **somebody else** _’s desires or actions, not an independent figure with a voice of her own. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/105 "2016-01-22T06:20:18Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Some examples of micro aggression are probably suspect. But I doubt that someone who spends time complaining about trigger words and microagressions is the best person to ask which are legitimate and which are not. Probably better to ask the group the insults are aimed at. The consensus among that group. He insulted an individual. A group’s opinion is irrelevant. Funny how the concept of treating an individual as such is ignored when it’s not convenient for a particular argument advanced for purely political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/106 "2016-01-22T06:21:32Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Nope, ‘dick’ has nothing like the same connotation. Even when considered purely in a sexual sense, the penis and the man it is attached to have an active role. ‘Cunt,’ however, connotes the woman spreads her legs (willingly or unwillingly makes no difference), but she certainly has no active role, no independent action or decision-making authority. She just has to take whatever he chooses to dish out, because she is nothing but a receptacle. > > The other similar words likewise reflect Woman as the object of _ **somebody else** _’s desires or actions, not an independent figure with a voice of her own. According to whom that’s what “cunt” connotes? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/107 "2016-01-22T06:25:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > He insulted an individual. A group’s opinion is irrelevant. Funny how the concept of treating an individual as such is ignored when it’s not convenient for a particular argument advanced for purely political reasons. A groups opinion is entirely relevant. They are the target of the insult. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/108 "2016-01-22T07:00:33Z")
Y’all are kind of proving my point. Misogyny or PC isn’t the problem. He’s acting like a little kid and that’s the real problem. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/109 "2016-01-22T07:04:02Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > A groups opinion is entirely relevant. They are the target of the insult. No they aren’t. If I call one particular man or woman a name that is only insulting that one man or woman. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/110 "2016-01-22T07:11:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No they aren’t. If I call one particular man or woman a name that is only insulting that one man or woman. Not if the insult is a label for a whole group of people. If I call someone a “fucking jew lawyer” that is an insult to both jews and lawyers ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/111 "2016-01-22T07:49:59Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Not if the insult is a label for a whole group of people. > > If I call someone a “fucking jew lawyer” that is an insult to both jews and lawyers I’ll grant you that. But calling a specific woman a pig isn’t an insult to women. Imo. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/112 "2016-01-22T14:16:00Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > #2 is fine - no woman deserves misogyny. I would quibble with this. The problem with misogynistic (or racist) insults is not that the person the insult is directed at doesn’t deserve that level of insult. They may or may not deserve that level of insult or worse, depending on circumstance. The problem with these types of insults is that you’re also implicitly insulting all the other members of those same groups, who shouldn’t be the targets of insults altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/113 "2016-01-22T15:11:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’ll grant you that. But calling a specific woman a pig isn’t an insult to women. Imo. it’s not as bad as some insults, but, it reinforces the fact that women are judged on theri looks. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/114 "2016-01-22T15:40:01Z")
Judging women on their looks is not misogynistic. Judging women only on their looks is misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/115 "2016-01-22T15:45:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Only in a tiny subset of the population, like liberal professors. “Microagression” is only a **name** the professors gave to behaviors that already were happening in the non-professorial population before the profs started looking at it. It’s a thing, and not **because** the profs noticed it. E.g.: > [@](#): > > Social scientists Sue, Bucceri, Lin, Nadal, and Torino (2007) described microaggressions as “the new face of racism,” saying that the nature of racism has shifted over time from overt expressions of racial hatred and hate crimes, towards expressions of aversive racism, such as microaggressions, that are more subtle, ambiguous and often unintentional. Researchers say this has led some Americans to wrongly believe that racism is no longer a problem for non-white Americans.[8] > > Studies[9] show that a wide variety of people in the United States report experience with racial microaggressions, including Hispanic/Latino American, African American, Middle Eastern American, European American, and Asian American people. Racial microaggressions are not limited by class or circumstance, and can be experienced by college students and upper-middle class professionals.[10] For example, white students and professors seeming surprised when an African-American student makes a particularly insightful or intelligent comment in class,[18] and Asian students being pathologized or penalized as too passive or quiet.[11] One famous example of a race-related microaggression happened when during the 2008 US democratic presidential primaries Joe Biden described Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.” Sue wrote that while on the surface Biden’s comment sounded like praise, the message heard by African-Americans was “Obama is an exception. Most Blacks are unintelligent, inarticulate, dirty and unattractive.”[7] > > According to Sue et al.,[12] microaggressions seem to appear in three forms: > microassault: an explicit racial derogation; verbal/nonverbal; e.g.: name-calling, avoidant behavior, purposeful discriminatory actions. > microinsult: communications that convey rudeness and insensitivity and demean a person’s racial heritage or identity; subtle snubs; unknown to the perpetrator; hidden insulting message to the recipient of color. > microinvalidation: communications that exclude, negate, or nullify the psychological thoughts, feelings, or experiential reality of a person belonging to a particular group. What, you don’t believe that shit actually **happens?!** Bullshit. You know very well it does. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/116 "2016-01-22T15:46:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Judging women on their looks is not misogynistic. Judging women only on their looks is misogynistic. not exactly the type of thing that someone who was dedicated to ending sexism would say… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/117 "2016-01-22T17:14:49Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > it’s not as bad as some insults, but, it reinforces the fact that women are judged on theri looks. Yes they are. And so are men. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/118 "2016-01-22T17:24:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > According to whom that’s what “cunt” connotes? ‘Cunt’ and ‘dick’ are both terms for sexual organs. Try spending 10 seconds thinking about the respective roles of those organs. Pretty much every woman with whom I’ve ever discussed similar matters has agreed that calling a woman ‘cunt’ implies she is, and is nothing more than, the sexual organ that plays a passive role, and that it’s not a very broad stretch to connotations of rape and women’s historical role as a sexual submissive to a dominant man. What does the term connote to you? Considering its etymology and denotation, does it not have sexual connotations to you? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/119 "2016-01-22T17:25:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes they are. And so are men. Women more than men. But that makes no difference for purposes of this issue. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792/120 "2016-01-22T17:27:21Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes they are. And so are men. Not to anything like the same degree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-heres-the-straight-dope-on-political-correctness/743792.md?page=7)