# Look, Islam is not going away **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695 "2015-11-16T14:34:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/1 "2015-11-16T14:34:08Z")
Don’t get me wrong, I heartily wish it **would** go away. I have no defenses to offer of Islamic doctrines or traditions, I have no time for any Yahvist faith – this world would be a better place if Abraham had been the village atheist – and Islam cannot even claim good religious music as a redeeming feature – but, we have to face facts: One human being in five is a Muslim. 100 years ago, one human being in five was a Muslim. Almost certainly, 100 years from now, one human being in five will be a Muslim. Islam is not going to overwhelm and convert all the world, nor are hundreds of millions of Muslims going to apostasize _en masse_ to other faiths or to agnosticism or atheism. Jihadist Salafism can perhaps be finally defeated and permanently marginalized, but Islam as such is never going to go the way of Fascism and Nazism and Communism, and the infidel world will just have to reach a workable accommodation with it. All discussions of how to respond to Islamic terrorism must begin from that incontrovertible assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/2 "2015-11-16T14:50:55Z")
Agreed. They do have some beautiful poetry. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/3 "2015-11-16T15:05:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > All discussions of how to respond to Islamic terrorism must begin from that incontrovertible assumption. I’m not aware of anyone of any importance in “the discussion”, or anyone on this MB for that matter ,who is assuming it can be made to go away. Where are you getting the idea otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/4 "2015-11-16T15:06:48Z")
So Islam is the herpes of religious thought? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/5 "2015-11-16T15:12:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not aware of anyone of any importance in “the discussion”, or anyone on this MB for that matter ,who is assuming it can be made to go away. Where are you getting the idea otherwise? Anne “Kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity” Coulter, for one. But many others (none on this MB, I hope) appear to have the same attitude without stating it so baldly. The “Islamofascism” meme is at least as much anti-Islamic as anti-fascist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/6 "2015-11-16T15:16:59Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Agreed. > > They do have some beautiful poetry. And interesting religious architecture and art. Working within the strictures of a total ban on images of gods, humans or animals has channeled it into creative avenues that might never have been explored in connection with any other faith. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/7 "2015-11-16T15:26:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Anne “Kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity” Coulter, for one. But many others (none on this MB, I hope) appear to have the same attitude without stating it so baldly. The “Islamofascism” meme is at least as much anti-Islamic as anti-fascist. Your evidence is a dredge up quote form Ann Fucking Coulter _from 14 years ago_ (a few days after the 9/11 attacks?) Like I said, no one of import to “the discussion” is assuming Islam can be made to go away. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/8 "2015-11-16T15:28:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Anne “Kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity” Coulter, for one. But many others (none on this MB, I hope) appear to have the same attitude without stating it so baldly. The “Islamofascism” meme is at least as much anti-Islamic as anti-fascist. So, crazy people are responsible for the attacks and you are relying on crazy people to inform your opinion that they think Islam is going away?? :eek: That’s, well, crazy. To reiterate, no (non-crazy) people think Islam is going away. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/9 "2015-11-16T15:30:26Z")
I am so glad the OP has cleared up this issue. Seriously, what sane person is suggesting Islam might or can be made to “go away”? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/10 "2015-11-16T15:31:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And interesting religious architecture and art. Working within the strictures of a total ban on images of gods, humans or animals has channeled it into creative avenues that might never have been explored in connection with any other faith. If you’re talking about geometric designs, you might want to have a look at some Roman art. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/11 "2015-11-16T15:32:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > … Islam cannot even claim good religious music as a redeeming feature … What do you have against [Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Ui2deAKr8) or [Maalem Si Mahomed Chaouqi](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENwWAhiLrTc)or others like this? What people write sometimes just causes me puzzlement. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/12 "2015-11-16T15:33:29Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, crazy people are responsible for the attacks and you are relying on crazy people to inform your opinion that they think Islam is going away?? :eek: > > That’s, well, crazy. To reiterate, no (non-crazy) people think Islam is going away. Perfectly true; but there are more crazies than many apparently wish to acknowledge. It is important to shut them down and shut them out before beginning any serious public discussion. The point is, they’re not now marginal the way White Nationalists or John Birchers are marginal, they should be, but they’re not; I don’t see the GOP or movement conservatism utterly repudiating Anne Coulter any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/13 "2015-11-16T15:37:09Z")
Islam is going away. At least, it will go away if we can keep government and religion reasonably separate. Ditto for all other religions in their current state. They are all going away. Religions evolve, for one thing; the Christianity of the Crusades is not the Christianity of today. (Islam has been slower to evolve for a couple reasons, not least of which is that many states have been unable to separate Islam from government.) But as long we can protect that separation, religion is pretty much toast, period. Religions cannot survive exposure to free ideas, because the tenets of religion all hinge upon the idea that a Greater Truth of some type exists. It does not. The greatest threat is science itself–the real enlightenment 🙂 , which renders ineffective the message that a Greater Truth renders unnecessary the need to behave against commonly-agreed upon behaviors. Without a Greater Truth, a society can decide forcing women to be submissive is bullshit. Without a Greater Truth, a society can decide refusing gays the privilege to marry is bullshit. And so on, down the line for all nonsensical tenets of belief for religions. Upon reasonable exposure to science, subsequent generations slowly discard the foundation upon which religions are built. Islam has been a little slow to evolve. It does seem like it’s about 500 years behind the times. But as long as we have societies that enforce separation of church and state, Islam will slowly go away. Down the road–one hopes, not too far down the road–Islam and other religions will be holiday traditions. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/14 "2015-11-16T15:37:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And interesting religious architecture and art. Working within the strictures of a total ban on images of gods, humans or animals has channeled it into creative avenues that might never have been explored in connection with any other faith. There is not a total ban on images for the sake of the Merciful… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/15 "2015-11-16T15:41:33Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > There is not a total ban on images for the sake of the Merciful… No? Then why does one never see them in a mosque? (I have sometimes seen human images in medieval Persian manuscripts – but I always thought that was just something that happened when the mullahs were looking the other way.) ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/16 "2015-11-16T15:46:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No? Then why does one never see them in a mosque? Because in a mosque that is frowned on as leading to Association (shirk). Why this can confuse you I do not know. > [@](#): > > (I have sometimes seen human images in medieval Persian manuscripts and ottoman etc. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/17 "2015-11-16T15:51:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Perfectly true; but there are more crazies than many apparently wish to acknowledge. It is important to shut them down and shut them out before beginning any serious public discussion. The point is, they’re not now marginal the way White Nationalists or John Birchers are marginal, they should be, but they’re not; I don’t see the GOP or movement conservatism utterly repudiating Anne Coulter any time soon. They are fringe groups. Even the GOP mainstream doesn’t think that Islam is going away. And you had to reach back to nearly 9/11 to find someone to go along with your narrative on this along with vague references to obviously fringe (AND crazy) groups like the White Nationalists and John Birchers. What’s Anne Coulter say today…not that whatever she has to say is going to be worth much, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/18 "2015-11-16T16:03:10Z")
whether or not they used their religion as justification for their attacks, the real cause is that these were bored, disaffected young men who needed to destroy things in order to feel important. just like the mass shootings we’ve had in the US. Adam Lanza, 20 years old. James Holmes, 25 years old. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, 17-18 years old. Seung-Hui Cho, 23. The Tsarnaevs, 19 and 26. SImply put, 16-25 year old males are extremely dangerous when they’re desperate to feel important. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/19 "2015-11-16T16:03:18Z")
[Donald Trump suggests that mosques should be shut down.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-mosques-paris_5649dc69e4b08cda34898552) > [@](#): > > Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump would consider shuttering some mosques in the United States after last week’s deadly terror attacks in France. > > “I would hate to do it, but it’s something you’re going to have to strongly consider, because some of the ideas and some of the hatred is coming from these areas,” Trump said Monday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” arguing that such an action would be a reasonable if mosques were indeed radicalizing their members. One more reason why Trump is not qualified for any public office. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695/20 "2015-11-16T16:04:10Z")
> [@XT](#): > > They are fringe groups. Even the GOP mainstream doesn’t think that Islam is going away. And you had to reach back to nearly 9/11 to find someone to go along with your narrative on this along with vague references to obviously fringe (AND crazy) groups like the White Nationalists and John Birchers. What’s Anne Coulter say today…not that whatever she has to say is going to be worth much, regardless. But, there are still neocon pundits who talk of “Islamofascism” – with the implication that Islam is something that can be done away with the way fascism has been. And, there are [some Dopers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=775206) who seem to say that Islam as such is the enemy here and anyone who says different is in denial. No, Islam is not and cannot be the enemy here. Jihadist terrorism has as much to do with Islam as assassinating abortionists has to do with Christianity – no more and no less. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-going-away/737695.md?page=2)