# Look, Islam is not the enemy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644 "2015-11-26T16:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/281 "2015-12-11T14:52:55Z")
Nice hate site, T.M. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/282 "2015-12-11T15:44:47Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nice hate site, T.M. I have read that China has been experiencing problems with Islam ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/283 "2015-12-11T16:09:35Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > I have read that China has been experiencing problems with Islam You’ve read wrong. China has had trouble with the majority-Muslim ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang Autonomous Region (mainly due to the Uyghur separatist/independence movement there), but the Muslim Hui in Tibet have been strong supporters of the Chinese occupation since they’ve been subject to violence at the hands of Tibetan Buddhists. And your site there is pure bullshit and promotes flat out liars and lunatics. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/284 "2015-12-12T00:24:56Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Hope this site will give you some information Well, it certainly confirms where you have been getting your misinformation. Linking to hate sites is not a good way to promote discussion. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/285 "2015-12-12T10:05:42Z")
Why is it a hate site just because you disagree with it, I have stood with Coptic Christians, Pakistani Christians and Iraqi Christians in support of their call for protection against Islamic persecution. I have hosted people in my home who know first hand about religious persecution not only of Christians but any person who dares not to follow the path of Islam. I have been honoured to share a meal with the head of Christian studies in Nigeria a man sentenced to be executed by crucifixion on his return home Just because he will not follow the prophet. The reality is 9/11 the bombings we have suffered in London and Paris and there is more to come ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/286 "2015-12-12T11:36:08Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Why is it a hate site just because you disagree with it,. . . You have it backwards. I disagree with it because it is a hate site. There is definitely a movement within Islam that is hateful and aggressive. The Wahhabist movement has produced much of the violence in the world in the last few decades and has provided a background for the rise of Daesh. However, that web site acts as though all of Islam is responsible for the violence. That is rather like acting as though all of Christianity is responsible for the Holocaust or the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The site ignores the background when an event may be triggered by tribal friction or by political fighting, simply blaming all violence on the religion and making no effort to identify the actual perpetrators or their actual motives. Any site that promotes the “Eurabia” fantasy of the European Right Wing, for example, is not involved in promoting serious information, but lies. That broad, unthinking condemnation is an act of hatred. ---
**Author:** ![geological](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/67e7ee/32.png) [@geological](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geological)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/287 "2015-12-16T02:38:43Z")
Taking down Saddam Hussein unleashed chaos. Blaming Muslims for 9/11 was wrong. it was done by the neo-cons. IMHO ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/288 "2015-12-16T02:52:48Z")
> [@geological](#): > > Taking down Saddam Hussein unleashed chaos. Blaming Muslims for 9/11 was wrong. it was done by the neo-cons. > IMHO You wouldn’t happen to have anything, anything at all, remotely resembling reputable substantion for your assertion about 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/289 "2015-12-16T03:03:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You wouldn’t happen to have anything, anything at all, remotely resembling reputable substantion for your assertion about 9/11? Mohammed Atta does kind of looks like William Kristol if you squint hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/290 "2015-12-16T04:09:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You wouldn’t happen to have anything, anything at all, remotely resembling reputable substantion for your assertion about 9/11? Blaming specific individual people who were Muslims, fine. Blaming “Muslims,” kinda wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/291 "2015-12-16T05:23:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > That is rather like acting as though all of Christianity is responsible for the Holocaust or the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Nazis weren’t Christians. And it was the US government, and associated governments, invaded Iraq in 2003. Bad analogy. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/292 "2015-12-16T15:42:31Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Nazis weren’t Christians. [Of course they were.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0521603528/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1450280245&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40) > [@](#): > > And it was the US government, and associated governments, invaded Iraq in 2003. [Indeed.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/293 "2015-12-16T23:36:32Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Nazis weren’t Christians. Nazis built on 1900 years of Christian antipathy toward Jews. And the death camps and trains and the _Einsatzgruppen_ were not run exclusively by members of the Nazi party, (many of whom _were_ Christian), but by run-of-the-mill Germans, (and Bulgarians and French and Dutch and others), who definitely were Christians even if they were following ideas spouted by Nazis. And the invasion of Iraq was hardly carried out by atheists or Hindus. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/294 "2015-12-17T03:23:57Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Nazis built on 1900 years of Christian antipathy toward Jews. > And the death camps and trains and the _Einsatzgruppen_ were not run exclusively by members of the Nazi party, (many of whom _were_ Christian), but by run-of-the-mill Germans, (and Bulgarians and French and Dutch and others), who definitely were Christians even if they were following ideas spouted by Nazis. > > And the invasion of Iraq was hardly carried out by atheists or Hindus. Can you name one person in the regime that did anything in the name of Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/295 "2015-12-17T10:59:23Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Man is wonderful, very wonderful > Look at him > Beware the future I get it. Perhaps the first great Genesis song. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/296 "2015-12-17T11:19:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Can you name one person in the regime that did anything in the name of Christianity? Red herring. Despite the odd neo-pagan attitudes of several of the Nazi leaders, the nation that they led was overwhelmingly Christian. Even the army belt buckles and other badges carried the slogan “_Gott mit uns_”. And my statement was not that Christianity inspired the Holocaust, but that a person might conclude that it was responsible for it. Millions of Christians failing to oppose it with thousands of Christians involved carrying it out would make Christianity as responsible for the Holocaust as Islam is responsible for the current Wahhabist-led terrorism. I deny both broad claims of responsibility, but those who wish to blame Islam for the one should accept Christian responsibility for the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/297 "2015-12-17T11:40:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Can you name one person in the regime that did anything in the name of Christianity? Is **Adolf Hitler** good enough for you for your No True Christianist excusing? _“Today Christians … stand at the head of Germany … I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity … We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of **liberal** excess during the past … (few) years.”_ - Adolf Hitler. The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/298 "2015-12-17T15:44:54Z")
I find Hitler to be problematic; he certainly \*used \*Christianity and pro-Christian rhetoric early on, but moved very far from it later. I don’t think one can sustain an argument that he was ever \*motivated \*by Christianity, or took his actions in its name. **tom~**'s point is accurate, IMO. Most Germans were Christian, and the _Wehrmacht_ motto was indeed “God [is] with us.” But **Magiver** may also have a point. I don’t know of anyone in the Reich, particularly in its leadership, who ever said “we are fighting in the name of Christ,” or “we are fighting according to the dictates of the Bible.” . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/299 "2015-12-17T18:04:03Z")
[Attacks on American Muslims are increasing.](http://www.salon.com/2015/12/17/a_shame_on_america_hate_attacks_on_u_s_muslims_are_spiking_and_wheres_the_outrage/) ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/300 "2015-12-17T20:58:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Attacks on American Muslims are increasing.](http://www.salon.com/2015/12/17/a_shame_on_america_hate_attacks_on_u_s_muslims_are_spiking_and_wheres_the_outrage/) How many Muslims have been targeted and killed by non-Muslims for their faith in America? In America, how many non-Muslims have been killed by Muslims? Once you have calculated that ratio, you may begin to understand the imbalance of outrage. Your Salon article cites a CAIR study. [CAIR](http://www.adl.org/israel-international/anti-israel-activity/c/the-council-on-american-islamic-relations.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/#.VnMiPX6rRhE), who is a tentacle of the Muslim Brotherhood and is on the [UAE list of designated terrorists](http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/uae-doubles-down-designation-cair-terrorists), regularly includes trivial instances of harassment, such as anonymous emails, in their lists. CAIR is part of the [honor brigade](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html), and their lists are examples of “[wound collecting](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201304/wound-collectors)”: > [@](#): > > “Honor brigades are wound collectors. They are couch jihadis,” Joe Navarro, a former supervisory special agent in the FBI’s behavioral analysis unit, tells me. “They sit around and collect the wounds and injustices inflicted against them to justify what they are doing. Tragedy unites for the moment, but hatred unites for longer.” [This video](https://www.facebook.com/ClarionProject/videos/916048778462927/?theater) does a good job of correctly locating CAIR on the continuum of extremism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644.md?page=16)