# Look, Islam is not the enemy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644 "2015-11-26T16:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/121 "2015-11-28T06:22:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We, in the west, do not believe that religion and state are inseparable Some do, some don’t. There are, after all, “established churches” in some western countries. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/122 "2015-11-28T06:25:01Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > no christian majority countries currently have a biblical based set of laws equivalent to sharia law How confident are you of that assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/123 "2015-11-28T06:31:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Some do, some don’t. There are, after all, “established churches” in some western countries. Well, okay, there’s the Vatican, for one… And England has its established church, though it’s pretty close to powerless. Italy was officially Catholic until 1984 (surprised the hell out of me to learn that!) So, yeah. But this, too, undermines, rather than reinforces, the charges against Islam. This sort of thing isn’t just an Islamic practice. In some Islamic countries, the church has a lot of power…and in others, not so much. The Mullahs rule Iran, but not Pakistan. The efforts among too many, including some here, are to blacken Islam’s name, and that’s just not good reasoning. Did we see an act of “Christian Terrorism” today in Colorado? Is “Christianity the enemy?” Among everything else, it’s bad set theory. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/124 "2015-11-28T06:42:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, okay, there’s the Vatican, for one… And England has its established church, though it’s pretty close to powerless. Italy was officially Catholic until 1984 (surprised the hell out of me to learn that!) > > So, yeah. But this, too, undermines, rather than reinforces, the charges against Islam. This sort of thing isn’t just an Islamic practice. It is just an islamic practise. The rest of the world got together in 1948 and created the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Of course no country can live up to it but its at least a noble aspiration. Now Islam is the only major religion which has bowed out of that and had to create its own version which is a bad joke. (the CDHRI). There is no Jewish Declaration of Human Rights, or Hindu, or Buddhist ones because those religions and the majority countries representative of them are ok with the Universal one. Islam is the only major world religion to reject the otherwise Universal UN declaration of Human Rights. In consequence its perfectly reasonable for people in the west to have a problem with Islam and Islamic majority countries. The west may have plenty of failings but the Islamics worlds ideals, as expressed in the CDHRI is something which we have a right to be repulsed by. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/125 "2015-11-28T08:58:46Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > This is an amazing, unexpected development.: Russia agreeing to be led in a common cause by the US. > > Now let’s just see if that means the US can get Putin to ditch that slug Assad. I fear Putin is playing some kind of game, and that Assad is at the root of it. Putin said no such thing. He has agreed to “cooperate” with the US-led coalition, and it really would be naive to read into that word that he would be willing to be led by the US. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/126 "2015-11-28T09:32:10Z")
Outside America most of us don’t value separation of church and state. We are comfortable enough with established state religions \*: like most other things, it’s all to do with how you use a thing. But getting uptight about mixing religion with government is mostly American, and doesn’t travel. - Even with Russia, which went from Orthodox to an Atheist State ( in which marxist-leninism was the state religion, complete with inquisition ) back now to Orthodox, with no discernible effect on the spirituality of the masses. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/127 "2015-11-28T09:57:51Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Outside America most of us don’t value separation of church and state. This is really missing the bigger picture. Go ahead and read the full text of the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam and the criticism of it. Then realise that this is the ideal of perfect human rights that the world should aspire to which has been signed by 45 majority muslim countries. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/128 "2015-11-28T10:26:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The efforts among too many, including some here, are to blacken Islam’s name, and that’s just not good reasoning. Did we see an act of “Christian Terrorism” today in Colorado? Is “Christianity the enemy?” > > Among everything else, it’s bad set theory. If the shooter states that he was driven by religion then yes. Otherwise, no. A person can go to a Mosque or church and kill someone and it’s not because of the religion. When a person kills someone over a cartoon that insult’s that person’s religion and there are religious leaders calling for that behavior then it’s the religion. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/129 "2015-11-28T10:43:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If the shooter states that he was driven by religion then yes. Otherwise, no. A person can go to a Mosque or church and kill someone and it’s not because of the religion. When a person kills someone over a cartoon that insult’s that person’s religion and there are religious leaders calling for that behavior then it’s the religion. Seriously? Do you think there was a chance this guy shot up Planned Parenthood because he didn’t like the wallpaper? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/130 "2015-11-28T11:15:14Z")
I see they’re about to stone someone to death in Saudi Arabia for adultery. She was only 17 when she did it too. Stoned to death for an irreligious shag - can you imagine how backwards that is ? Is there scriptural justification for that ? > **[Saudi Arabia sentences woman convicted of adultery to death by stoning - her...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sri-lanka-asks-saudi-arabia-to-pardon-maid-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning-after-she-admitted-adultery-a6752196.html)** > > Sri Lanka urges Gulf state to pardon the domestic worker, who had been working there since 2013 ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/131 "2015-11-28T11:36:11Z")
Scriptural as in Bible Old Testament, or _scriptural_ as a way of referring to the muslim screeds, the Koran and the Hadiths ? Even if both jews and christians now believe the injunctions of the Bible are no longer obligatory, and even if muslims revere their mother religion of Judaism, they are not bound by other scriptures or traditions. For themselves stoning is not prescribed in the Koran, nor mentioned, but it is traditional from the hadiths, Each denomination can make up it’s own mind on what to follow. Having an old loony as a preacher will help choosing the severer path. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/132 "2015-11-28T12:29:53Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > I see they’re about to stone someone to death in Saudi Arabia for adultery. She was only 17 when she did it too. Stoned to death for an irreligious shag - can you imagine how backwards that is ? > Is there scriptural justification for that ? > > [Saudi Arabia sentences woman convicted of adultery to death by stoning - her male partner gets 100 lashes | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sri-lanka-asks-saudi-arabia-to-pardon-maid-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning-after-she-admitted-adultery-a6752196.html) Not that it makes a difference, but the 17 year old is a difference case, sentenced for taking part in anti-government protests. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/133 "2015-11-28T12:50:57Z")
In a remarkable coincidence another 17-yr-old girl has just been executed by hammering; having tried to leave ISIS — who seem to take \ ***No One Here Gets Out Alive** \*as an injunction. As an Austrian teenager she and a co-teen, now dead, ran away to join the Good Old Cause on 2014. I had different priorities when 14. [\*\*Haaretz : Austrian ISIS ‘Poster Girl’ Reported Killed While Trying to Flee Raqqa \*\*](http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.688399) Of course it may be made up for all I know. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/134 "2015-11-28T13:44:21Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Scriptural as in Bible Old Testament, or _scriptural_ as a way of referring to the muslim screeds, the Koran and the Hadiths ? Let’s keep it polite, Claverhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/135 "2015-11-28T15:44:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The efforts among too many, including some here, are to blacken Islam’s name, and that’s just not good reasoning. Did we see an act of “Christian Terrorism” today in Colorado? Is “Christianity the enemy?” I’ll withhold judgement, but I think it’s very likely that we did see Christian terrorism in Colorado. Thank goodness this type of terrorism is fairly rare. No one is arguing that Islam is unique with regard to wackos carrying out acts of violence in the name or religion. I would merely make the argument that at this moment in time, Islam is unique with regard to the percentage of its followers who either act in the name of religion or support such acts. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/136 "2015-11-28T17:54:00Z")
The Planned Parenthood shooter may very well qualify as a Christian terrorist. We know nothing about him but it seems likely he’s some kind of Christian extremist. If I tried to argue “Christianity is a religion of love and therefore the shooter is not a Christian,” the secular leftists of the SDMB would laugh at me, and rightly so. But they’ll happily accept that argument about Muslim terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/137 "2015-11-28T17:54:47Z")
After events in Colorado Springs, it is clear that conservative Christians are a threat. Will Donald demand we register Christians and monitor their churches? Will Ted Cruz demand the President calls this what it is? Will Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum apologize for the actions of their co-believers? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/138 "2015-11-28T17:59:56Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Seriously? Do you think there was a chance this guy shot up Planned Parenthood because he didn’t like the wallpaper? Are you serious that you don’t understand the difference between someone acting on the instructions of a religious leader and someone being a member of a religion committing a crime? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/139 "2015-11-28T18:39:56Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > After events in Colorado Springs, it is clear that conservative Christians are a threat. Will Donald demand we register Christians and monitor their churches? Will Ted Cruz demand the President calls this what it is? Will Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum apologize for the actions of their co-believers? I have no doubt the government was already monitoring suspected Christian extremist groups, and they’d have been irresponsible not to. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644/140 "2015-11-28T18:59:33Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I have no doubt the government was already monitoring suspected Christian extremist groups, and they’d have been irresponsible not to. You would think anyone living in a crudely constructed shed with no running water who rambled to himself and looked like Charles Manson would show up on someone’s radar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-islam-is-not-the-enemy/738644.md?page=8)