# Look, Ma, no WMDs!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895 "2004-01-24T22:22:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/81 "2004-01-26T15:08:15Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Leave the fascism to the fascists and move to Germany. Is that name-calling in GD? I didn’t think that was allowed in this forum. Anyway, stating that President Bush will be re-elected makes me a fascist? How so? And what’s up with the slam on Germans? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/82 "2004-01-26T15:25:00Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > **Aro,** > The initial post about machine-tampering implied that Bush coulnd’t win in '04 WITHOUT tampering with the machines - and that’s what triggered my reaction. I mean, c’mon…is that EVEN logical? > \ > IF Bush wins in '04, I will be the FIRST PERSON to post a link back to this thread, WHEN someone jumps up and says that Bush only won “because he tampered with the voting machines!” I agree with this. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought Bush, or even the GOP, would necessarily get involved with that level of subterfuge or deceit, as I’m sure the vast majority of politicians, regardless of leaning, at heart do believe in the notion of democracy and fairness. But the issue worth watching, for me, is some faceless corporation who could have the motive and opportunity to _‘pull strings’_ with the machines on the closely contested swing states to favour a politician who would later invoke / remove legislation that would support their specific interests. Such a scenario is not too difficult to imagine, but rather horrible to contemplate. So, (to end the hi-jack) there’s no sign of any WMDs then? To quote Bob Dylan in “It’s alright Ma”, _“Your empty handed armies, are all going home”_. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/83 "2004-01-27T08:03:03Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Is that name-calling in GD? I didn’t think that was allowed in this forum. Anyway, stating that President Bush will be re-elected makes me a fascist? How so? And what’s up with the slam on Germans? That’s not name calling, sheesh! The implication is that if George Bush is elected again, it means another four years of what to me, IMO, is equivalent to a fascist regime (this opinion is shared by others, I’m sure). The irony is that I have nothing against Germany and would probably feel safer and more ideologically compatible with modern Germans/Germany, despite their political history. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/84 "2004-01-27T11:11:09Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > I agree with this. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought Bush, or even the GOP, would necessarily get involved with that level of subterfuge or deceit, as I’m sure the vast majority of politicians, regardless of leaning, at heart do believe in the notion of democracy and fairness. ``` Well its not so unbeleivable... Nixon did resort to "subterfuge"... it wouldn't be the first time a Republican did it. Tonkin Bay rings a bell too. Considering that you only need to fake a few thousand votes in key states just makes it even easier to get away with. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/85 "2004-01-27T12:45:02Z")
> [@](#): > > **devilknew**"… if George Bush is elected again, it means another four years of what to me, IMO, is equivalent to a fascist regime (this opinion is shared by others, I’m sure)." Call me stupid, but I just love those silly novelty songs… **All Around the World** by “Little Willie” John _And if I don’t love you baby Grits ain’t groceries Bush is Nazises And Mona Lisa was a man._ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/86 "2004-01-29T02:14:24Z")
Weapons of mass destruction, schweapons of fass restruction… When are you people going to realize that its not about the details, its about the overall, and Iraq was merely phase one (and an amazingly successful one at that). [Here’s several reasons why…](http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004126.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/87 "2004-01-29T06:46:34Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > Weapons of mass destruction, schweapons of fass restruction… > > When are you people going to realize that its not about the details, its about the overall, and Iraq was merely phase one (and an amazingly successful one at that). [Here’s several reasons why…](http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004126.asp) Well this “amazing” sucess seems to be taking a while… I wonder when Bushie Oil Jr. will go to step 2 Israeli Palestinian… never mind step 3 North Korea… or step 5 Chechen War. Why piss Putin ? Why do I feel Bush is fucking things up more than solving them… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/88 "2004-01-29T08:00:56Z")
**Hail Ants** : > [@](#): > > \*Weapons of mass destruction, schweapons of fass restruction… > > When are you people going to realize that its not about the details, its about the overall, and Iraq was merely phase one (and an amazingly successful one at that).\* What a pathetic, last ditch defense from the side of the aisle that, prior to the war, was screaming that Hussein was an overwhelming threat to America, one requiring a military response. Me, I guess I’m just too stupid to realize it’s not about the “details”…tiny little insignificant “details,” like the tons of chemical munitions, the thousands of liters of botulinum toxin, the drone aircraft, the yellowcake purchases, the aluminum tube centrifuges, etc., etc. Stupid, stupid me. Good thing we have **Hail Ants** here to enlighten us as to what’s _really_ going on. But if these “details” were so unimportant, I wonder why Bush made such a big deal about them? That he didn’t just step up to the podium and state flatly, ”My fellow Americans, _fuck the details_…our invasion of Iraq is just _phase one of the overall_”…? Hell, at least that would have been honest. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/89 "2004-01-29T08:44:43Z")
> [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > That he didn’t just step up to the podium and state flatly, ”My fellow Americans, _fuck the details_…our invasion of Iraq is just _phase one of the overall_”…? > > Hell, at least that would have been honest. They actually _did_ make it clear that it was just phase one in the “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” document. Trouble is, they fucked up phase one so comprehensively that there’s not much chance of ever getting to phase two. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/90 "2004-01-29T23:07:54Z")
Not finding any WMDs in Iraq is exactly the same as Saddam launching Scuds at Israel in the first Gulf War. Yes, its embarrassing, frustrating, and a public relations nightmare. But strategically, its meaningless. Saddam’s regime is gone forever and that’s a good thing. Among other reasons, because he was perceived as having stood up to and won against the West (by remaining in power after the Gulf War). Potential 9/11-style Arab terrorist strongmen take note: We are not afraid to, are capable of, and don’t need anyone’s permission to take out our enemies, past present or future. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/91 "2004-01-29T23:13:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Saddam’s regime is gone forever and that’s a good thing. Among other reasons, because he was perceived as having stood up to and won against the West (by remaining in power after the Gulf War). Who, other than Saddam, perceived him as winning? That’s absurd. > [@](#): > > Potential 9/11-style Arab terrorist strongmen take note: We are not afraid to, are capable of, and don’t need anyone’s permission to take out our enemies, past present or future. Maybe nobody told you Saddam had nothing to do with September 11th, but he didn’t. Getting rid of him won’t intimidate Osama bin Laden. Are you serious? Terrorists who don’t mind blowing themselves up aren’t afraid that you’ll go after them unilaterally. That course will only inflame the population of the Arab world anyway. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/92 "2004-01-29T23:24:38Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > Potential 9/11-style Arab terrorist strongmen take note: We are not afraid to, are capable of, and don’t need anyone’s permission to take out our enemies, past present or future. Read: We’re just as willing to sacrifice innocent civilians for the sake of our sheer fanatism as you are. Which is why we made sure there’s twice as many of you, giving us twice as many reasons to bomb a nation back into the stone age. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/93 "2004-01-29T23:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Who, other than Saddam, perceived him as winning? That’s absurd Basically the entire Arab world did. They don’t have much success winning wars so this was viewed as a ‘win’. > [@](#): > > Terrorists who don’t mind blowing themselves up aren’t afraid that you’ll go after them unilaterally. No, but the thousands of people who support them do. It takes a lot more than just the ones actually ready to die to do these things. Look, I know everyone is going to call me a racist but I don’t care about political correctness post 9/11. This is how you deal with the hostile arab world. With strength, intimidation, and overwhelming military power. This is why Israel still exists even though its totally surrounded by fanatical enemies who hate them. Plus, [this is why arabs always lose…](http://www.strategypage.com/search.asp?target=d:%5Cinetpub%5Cstrategypageroot%5Cdls%5Cdocs2002%5C20020909.htm&search=why%20arabs%20lose) > [@](#): > > We’re just as willing to sacrifice innocent civilians for the sake of our sheer fanatism as you are I don’t consider defending our country against global terrorism ‘fanatism’… ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/94 "2004-01-29T23:41:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Basically the entire Arab world did. They don’t have much success winning wars so this was viewed as a ‘win’. Do you have a cite for this assertion? ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895/95 "2004-01-29T23:46:10Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > Basically the entire Arab world did. They don’t have much success winning wars so this was viewed as a ‘win’. Your say-so doesn’t make it so. > [@](#): > > No, but the thousands of people who support them do. It takes a lot more than just the ones actually ready to die to do these things. And you think they will be impressed by bullying? Helped Israel a lot. > [@](#): > > Look, I know everyone is going to call me a racist but I don’t care about political correctness post 9/11. Ah, I take it then the KKK is all about being politically incorrect, huh? Butchering a few innocent people is an issue of not being politically correct? > [@](#): > > This is how you deal with the hostile arab world. With strength, intimidation, and overwhelming military power. This is why Israel still exists even though its totally surrounded by fanatical enemies who hate them. Israel has precisely ZERO success with your oh-so-great strategy. But hey, if a few of these desert rats get eradicated, who cares, huh? Maybe just round them all up and make sure none of them will ever raise a hand again, right? > [@](#): > > I don’t consider defending our country against global terrorism ‘fanatism’… I don’t consider summary killings ‘defending your country’, and I don’t consider ignorance and nationalistic drivel being threatened by terrorism. It is precisely self-posses spew like yours, declaring American lives as infintely more valuable and all other human beings of the planet as inferior that fuel this hatred. You don’t have the slightest idea what it means to be threatened by terrorism, nor do your great leaders have any experience fighting it, let alone successfully. You just declare the rest of the world expendable, figuring that if no one is there anymore, there is no one who can threaten you. You are spitting on the graves of the victims of terrorism worldwide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-ma-no-wmds/225895.md?page=4)