# Look out would-be burglars, I'm gettin' a gun!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2000, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341 "2000-09-07T06:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mk9kahr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@mk9kahr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mk9kahr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/81 "2000-09-12T16:37:33Z")
Aenea- When you are asking about the .44 Mag Carbine, I suppose that you are speaking about the much missed Ruger .44 “Deerslayer” semi-auto Carbine that was discontinued in 1986? Looked alot like a .22 rifle on steroids? Tube fed, held 4 rounds? Do not dispair, Ruger has introduced a new version that is actually a “Garand” type action- like the Mini -14 or the M-1 30-.06. Looks like a neat peice of hardware. If I was not saving up for a larger gun safe, I would have one on order. There was a full write up in last month’s “Shooting Times”. Built in scope mounts, standard peep sight, Detachable 4 round rotary type magazine. Can’t wait untill they get one in stock at the local Gun store… Hope that helps, and Happy Shooting 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mk9kahr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@mk9kahr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mk9kahr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/82 "2000-09-12T16:50:14Z")
Something I need to post, that I forgot on my other ones… ::Hijack:: fnord, and anyone else that wants to keep your right to get and keep your firearms, PLEASE join the NRA. They work really hard for us to keep this fundamental human right. ::Hijack:: ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/83 "2000-09-12T17:46:10Z")
Joined last month! A direct result of the whole Rosie O’Donnell and Million Mom March. Indirectly, because of the gun-control threads on this board several months ago. I saw just how antagonistic some people were to the concept of gun ownership and the right to protect oneself with a gun, if desired. I had to stand up and make my statement the best way I knew how. So, I joined. I am enjoying my subscription to _America’s First Freedom_, and am heartened by the intelligent debate presented by the NRA and people on this board willing to support second-amendment rights. I don’t hunt, collect, or stockpile an arsenal. I own a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 magnum and a S&W .357 magnum. The .357 is within arm’s reach of my pillow. As the OP stated, look out burglers. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/84 "2000-09-12T21:10:44Z")
You’ve got a S&W .357? Is it the Model 686? I’ve got one of those with the 6" bbl, and so do a couple other posters here; it’s a helluva nice handgun and is also my choice for the nightstand. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/85 "2000-09-12T23:42:23Z")
Hey **UncleBeer** , remind me never to post from work for something I should verify first! Did I say .357 magnum? I couldn’t have been more wrong. It’s a .38. (I _did_ remember S&W, though!). So, slap me silly; but remember, I am not a collector of handguns. This was my dad’s gun, and I made sure it ended up in my possession after he died this spring. Actually, getting it here was an adventure. I took it to the airport, declared it and presented it as unloaded in checked baggage. The previous times I transported my .44 all I had to do was declare the gun and sign a statement. This time, the guy asked my where my lock box was. Lock box? I don’t have a lock box. Carrying case? Nope, don’t have one of them either. It’s just a gun. No case. I need to get it from here to there. It took me a good 30 minutes to convince them that it was okay. ---
**Author:** ![fnord1966](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@fnord1966](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fnord1966)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/86 "2000-09-13T02:22:18Z")
Ive been a member of the NRA for about 6 months now. Primarily I am a rifle/long gun kinda guy, but I figured that now was the time to get myself a handgun. Someone before mentioned the Desert Eagle handguns, at the local indoor shooting range I got the chance to shoot a box of 44 mags with one. WOW it is probably THE most accurate pistol I have ever shot! Of the 8 shot clip, I placed every one of the bullets in the orange center at 15 yards,Actually it was a group the size of a golf ball, in the orange senter of the tactical style target. And as for the recoil, it was like shooting a .22. My mom would be able to shoot that gun. (only problem is I dont have $1200 to spend of one) ---
**Author:** ![Gunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/87 "2000-09-13T03:18:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fnord1966 \* > \*\*Someone before mentioned the Desert Eagle handguns, at the local indoor shooting range I got the chance to shoot a box of 44 mags with one… And as for the recoil, it was like shooting a .22. My mom would be able to shoot that gun. (only problem is I dont have $1200 to spend of one) \*\* The damn thing weighs more than 4 pounds…of course it doesn’t kick much. My current wrist-snapping cannon that I want to try is the Taurus “Raging Bull” .454 Casull DA revolver…5 rounds as fast as you can squeeze the trigger… Of course, I’d take a Colt 1911-A1 Series 70 (or two!) any day. ---
**Author:** ![SouthernStyle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SouthernStyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SouthernStyle)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/88 "2000-09-13T14:43:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Anthracite_ > I don’t know what the difference is between a “man’s ruler” and a standard measure. However, when I bought it there were 2 barrel options - the 7 and the 9 inch (or 7.5 and 9.5, you know, I can’t remember now, and I’m not home to measure it…). > > Yes, the recoil is harsh, but not that bad, because the gun is **very** heavy. The principal reason I chose the Ruger was because it’s grips fit very nicely in small hands (I do have small, thin hands). The S&W and Dan Wesson models have those stupid-ass “Western Style” grips that only are comfortable being held by a 6’4" hairy behemoth of a man. 🙂 > > Then inevitably, I notice that I’m the only one still shooting, as everyone else has secured their weapons and gathered behind me to watch and chuckle at little ol’ me with the .44 Mag. Then usually everyone want’s to try firing it, at $0.50 per shot, and \*\*they never reimburse me for the ammo (grrr…) > \*\* The reference to the “man’s ruler” was a subtle reference to the old joke about why women can’t tell distance – a bit too obscure, huh? Handling the S&W or Dan Wesson isn’t a problem. Being 6’7", 255#, with hands that can palm a bowling ball requires larger grips and weights that are problematic to more “gentile” frames. (FWIW, I’m also sport a full moustache and beard, but since I’m otherwise in ever decreasing need of a comb, “hairy behemoth” isn’t completely accurate. :)) Your problem of others wanting to test fire your gun seem universal. It seems that everywhere I’ve shot semi-regularly someone shows up with a “unique” firearm. Most people are content in their curiosity and watch the shooter, but inevitably someone wants to try it. On one trip to an outdoor range someone showed up with a WWII vintage fully automatic Tommy gun! While all of us enjoyed “the show” there were several people that asked to try it and of course none of the requests included an offer to pay for the ammunition. While I have offerred my pistol to another shooter so that they could try it, I do understand your issue. Perhaps one of the dopers has come up with a tactful solution. **aenea** - Where did you live in Montana? I’ve never had a permanent residence there, but work sent me there regularly a couple of years ago. I still dream about the steaks in Marysville. ---
**Author:** ![mk9kahr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@mk9kahr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mk9kahr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2000, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/89 "2000-09-13T19:20:05Z")
Gunslinger- I have been wanting to get one of them "Raging Bull"s for a while now. Ever since I saw a guy whack a Russian Boar at 100 yards with one of them. Most impressive display. And the Fireball that sucker threw was SOOO impressive. ---
**Author:** ![SouthernStyle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@SouthernStyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SouthernStyle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2000, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/90 "2000-09-14T13:28:09Z")
[semi-bump] This has been such a good thread that I hate to see it die. [/semi-bump] Two of the shotguns I own are _Remington_ Auto-5s. Their serial numbers and manufacturing dates put them at 1908 and 1912. The rights to the gun were bought by Browning decades ago. The ONLY repair ever done to these two guns has been to replace an ejector. And the two guns have had many cases of shells put through them. (How’s that for workmanship!) ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2000, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/91 "2000-09-14T16:37:07Z")
Explain further please. What do you mean by you own them but Browing has the rights to them? ---
**Author:** ![fnord1966](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@fnord1966](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fnord1966)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/92 "2000-09-14T16:47:52Z")
He probably means the rights to the patents, or the rights of manufacture. So what was once a Remington, is now marketed and sold as a Browning. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2000, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/93 "2000-09-14T17:02:04Z")
I _think_ what he’s speaking of is John Moses Browning originally designed the gun and sold the manufacturing rights to Remington as he did with many of his designs. Browning later re-acquired the manufacturing rights from Remington. I, myself, have a Browning designed, Winchester M1887. This is a lever-action 10ga shotgun with a damascus receiver first produced in 1887 and modeled on the 1886 rifle action. I believe the M1887 was produced through about 1898. Mine dates back to 1894 and has been in my family for nearly all of those years. It was initially acquired by my great-grandfather, who swapped several bushels of corn and a squirrel dog for it. Or so my father claims. ---
**Author:** ![Nukeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Nukeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nukeman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/94 "2000-09-18T18:18:59Z")
Hey, Im sorry I got you guys so pissed off, so this is my last post on the subject. Okay, maybe im relatively ignorant on the subject, but you have to agree that many, many people agree with me. You have to admit though, that you are all biased on one side because you are all gun fanatics. I dont own guns and I dont know anyone who has been killed by a gun or anything that might make me biased against them, so I am not biased. Also, UncleBeer, when on the subject of a violent nation, you cant blame the descendants of criminals etc for their crimes so you cant be called a violent nation as such. On the other hand, Britain could also be called a violent nation in the same way. For example, the football (soccer) riots during Euro 2000. Another example is of my cousins who are brothers from Newcastle had a fight the other day in which they broke a glass front window and went out into the street fighting and one nearly strangled the other. If they had had guns they might have killed one another. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/95 "2000-09-18T18:31:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, maybe im relatively ignorant on the subject, but you have to agree that many, many people agree with me. And? A lot of people agree with L. Ron Hubbard, too. > [@](#): > > You have to admit though, that you are all biased on one side because you are all gun fanatics. Gee, I guess my little C.V. up there had little impact. Exactly how am I a gun fanatic. > [@](#): > > I dont own guns and I dont know anyone who has been killed by a gun or anything that might make me biased against them, so I am not biased. Riiiiiiight. Maybe you oughta do a little research into actual facts and figures. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/96 "2000-09-18T18:46:25Z")
I usually don’t do this kind of thing, but I’m going to completely pick apart your last post. > [@](#): > > … you have to agree that many, many people agree with me. Yep, I can agree to that statement. That doesn’t make it, or you, or them correct though. > [@](#): > > You have to admit though, that you are all biased on one side because you are all gun fanatics. fanatic **n** - _a person whose extreme zeal, piety, etc. goes beyond what is reasonable; zealot._ Try again. Not only are you ignorant on the topic at hand, your grasp of the English language is questionable. I see no sign of fanaticism from the gun rights advocates here. Merely a calm and reasonable discussion of the benefits of gun ownership. Hell, I own less than half a dozen guns (more than one of them are collector pieces and will never be fired either). Where’s the fanaticism or zealotry? > [@](#): > > I dont own guns and I dont know anyone who has been killed by a gun or anything that might make me biased against them, so I am not biased. So what? I don’t know anyone who was killed by a firearm either; I do, however know someone who was murdered with a screwdriver. What does that prove? Nothing, of course. If your implication that I’m biased towards guns, simply because I own a gun, holds any water then I can equally validly assert your bias _against_ guns since you _don’t_ own one. Your claim of objectivity fails. > [@](#): > > Also, UncleBeer, when on the subject of a violent nation, you cant blame the descendants of criminals etc for their crimes so you cant be called a violent nation as such. On the other hand, Britain could also be called a violent nation in the same way. For example, the football (soccer) riots during Euro 2000. What? I don’t understand this line of reasoning at all. > [@](#): > > Another example is of my cousins who are brothers from Newcastle had a fight the other day in which they broke a glass front window and went out into the street fighting and one nearly strangled the other. If they had had guns they might have killed one another. I’ll just bet alcohol was involved in this little fracas. As such, I deny it has any bearing on this topic. I, and I’m willing to bet the safety-conscious people above, don’t fool with firearms after drinking. That’s just a simple safety measure everyone should follow. ---
**Author:** ![Nukeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Nukeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nukeman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/97 "2000-09-18T21:00:04Z")
Okay, I wasnt going to do this but here I go anyway: 1 My use of the word ‘fanatic’ was purely spur-of the-moment. Im sorry I gave the wrong impression. Maybe ‘enthusiast’ is a better word for it, but my meaning remains the same. If you own a gun, you will be biased against gun restriction laws because you do not want to lose the right to shoot or own a weapon. By the way this is the Oxford English Dictionary’s definition of fanatic: Of persons, their actions, attributes, etc.: Characterized, influenced, or prompted by excessive and mistaken enthusiasm, esp. in religious matters. I dont know where you got your defininiton from, but this is the ENGLISH one. I think that ‘excessive and mistaken enthusiasm’ is exactly the phrase i was looking for. To prove it. Here is the site [http://dictionary.oed.com](http://dictionary.oed.com) - look it up if you like. I noticed that you gave no source for your definition. 1. Im not saying that YOU know someone killed by a gun, far from it, I am saying that some people hate guns because they are a pacifist or have had a relative killed by a gun. (its just an EXAMPLE) 2. You said ‘America is a violent country’ I countered this by giving examples of English people being just as violent. 3. Alcohol was not involved in the ‘fracas’. Its just that they are from Newcastle and are naturally pugnacious. Dont spout your ‘safety concious’ shit with me. When you are drunk, you lose your inhibitions and firearms 5.‘Yep, I can agree to that statement. That doesn’t make it, or you, or them correct though.’ Great. You make a completely stupid and smart alec statement that doesnt even make sense. You say you agree to it, but then deny that it is correct: ‘That doesnt make it,…correct though’ Next time you accuse me of not knowing my own language, check what youve just written first. 1. No, Im not biased against guns because I dont own one. Im not biased against cars because I dont own one, yet they kill more people than guns. (dont even go there, there are also more car owners than gun owners. Guns are DESIGNED to kill people.) One more point. If you care what the difference is between a .375 and a .38 is then you really are sad, boring individuals. WHO CARES. There are probably other points I could make but I really can’t be bothered. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/98 "2000-09-18T21:23:24Z")
…must resist… too late- “Guns are designed to kill people” Wrong! Guns are designed to fire a projectile swiftly and accurately. I have guns which will _never_ be used against a living thing. A gun is a tool. What you use it for, the reasons behind said actions, and the choice of tool are entirely up to the user. I feel the need to shower ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/99 "2000-09-18T21:40:02Z")
There’s a world of difference between “enthusiast” and “fanatic,” Nukeman. Even if I accept your definition of fanaticism, can you be so kind as to show me where my “mistaken or excessive enthusiam” is? My statement concering your grasp of the English language stands. My source of definitions, by the way, is the _American Heritage Dictionary_. I also never claimed to be unbiased on the issue of gun-control laws, I merely showed where your bias lies. Of course I have a reason for opposing restrictive gun laws, I’m a gun owner. You think guns are inherently dangerous, that’s your prejudice. In that light, your claims of having no bias, merely because you don’t know anyone killed by a gun, make no sense. Please show me where I said America is a violent country. I stated earlier that you’ve bought wholeheartedly into the British media’s contention that America is a violent place. I didn’t say America was violent. Northern Ireland, in my opinion, is violent. Or do you feel, as your Prime Minister did in 1992, that the violence in Northern Ireland was at an “acceptable level?” Even though there were weekly reports of bombings, shootings and stabbings? I feel the level of violence in America is at an acceptable level. My statement agreeing with your assessment that “many, many people” share your view makes perfect sense. I am saying, “Yes, many people agree with you.” My contention is that just because, “many, many people” agree on something, that doesn’t necessarily make that something correct. Think about it. I don’t use the Guns Vs. Cars argument; I think it’s a lousy analogy for this simple reason. Gun ownership is a constitutionally guaranteed right in this country; Automobile ownership and use of that auto is not; it’s a privilege granted to individuals. A driver’s license is a contract you enter into with the state. I apologize if I jumped to a conclusion about your cousins and alcohol, but you seem to be implying now that these guys have a history of violence. Banning firearm ownership from that type of person is exactly the kind of firearm restrictions I advocate. Attempts to prevent peaceable law-abiding citizens from exercising their constitutional rights is what I abhor. So firearms and shooting happen to be a hobby of mine. I really don’t give a damn whether you care about my hobbies or not. I’ll thank you to not misrepresent them though. Sorry to bore ya. And I think you mean .357, not .375. Now, I’m sending this thread to GD. If you wish to continue the argument, I’ll see ya there. If not, then I guess you don’t feel bothered to back up your allegations, since your opinions mean that little to you. [Edited by UncleBeer on 09-18-2000 at 04:45 PM] ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2000, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341/100 "2000-09-18T21:54:08Z")
His opinion doesn’t mean anything to us either, Unclebeer. > [@](#): > > One more point. If you care what the difference is between a .375 and a .38 is then you really are sad, boring individuals. WHO CARES. > > There are probably other points I could make but I really can’t be bothered. **Nukeman** , At least you are not obnoxious like so many other people - you are obnoxious in a different and worse way! Go ahead, tell them everything you know. It’ll only take 10 seconds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/look-out-would-be-burglars-im-gettin-a-gun/32341.md?page=6)