# Looking for a lesser version of the word "despite".

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [April 14, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656 "2013-04-14T02:22:57Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Blunt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Blunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blunt)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/1 "2013-04-14T02:22:57Z")

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A few buddies of mine were discussing our first job out of college where we all worked together, and brought up our boss who pretty much did nothing. Basically things would have been no different in our department if he wasn’t there at all, although some things went very right, which of course he got credit for. Now I’ve heard more than once someone describe something as successful _despite_ some factor, and that’s exactly what one of us said about our department, but I don’t think that _despite_ is the word I’d have used. To me _despite_ implies that our boss’ leadership was actually a determent, when really it was more like no help and no hurt. I guess you could consider the lack of leadership to be a determent because a manager would typically be expected to contribute, but like I said, things ran pretty well, it was really just no thanks to our boss.

So, rather than say our department was “successful _despite_ our manager”, can anyone think of a similar but toned down phrase that means more or less “successful no thanks to our manager”? If feel like the word or phrase I’m looking for is right on the tip of my tongue, but I can’t come up with how I’d state it.

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**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/2 "2013-04-14T02:28:51Z")

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I don’t think the problem is “despite,” although “notwithstanding” might be softer. The problem is “despite our manager,” when what you’ve expressed is, “despite our manager’s lack of leadership.”

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**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/3 "2013-04-14T02:45:42Z")

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Successful absent any help from the manager.

Successful even though the manager was about as useful as a bucket of warm spit.

Not as successful as it would have been if the manager had bothered to put an oar in the water.

And, really: Successful in spite of the manager not doing anything.

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**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/4 "2013-04-14T02:49:24Z")

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Regardless, irrelevant, with no help from, independent of. . .

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**Author:** ![Blkshp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blkshp/32/7135_2.png) [@Blkshp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blkshp)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/5 "2013-04-14T03:38:04Z")

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He was superfluous.

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**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/6 "2013-04-14T03:41:10Z")

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Irrespective of

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**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\
**Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-lesser-version-of-the-word-despite/655656/7 "2013-04-14T06:50:10Z")

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with little input from