# Looking for a term, possible Latin, meaning "pre-existing" or "given" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500 "2012-07-26T22:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/1 "2012-07-26T22:26:50Z")
Title says it all really. I _think_ there is a Latin term (or maybe Greek or something) for what I’m looking for, but I’m not sure. It’s something that’s an unquestioned “given”; something assumed to be true from which we can proceed to do proofs or draw conclusions. The context is, “Person X has never been under scrutiny for Y problem, because it was taken as a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_[from the beginning] that the problem does not exist for him/her” (Want a more formal, precise word than “given”) Maybe I’m hallucinating that there even is such a word. But if there is I’m confident a Doper will know it. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/2 "2012-07-26T22:28:52Z")
The only things that comes to mind are ‘a priori’ or axiomatic, though the former doesn’t really fit in your sample sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/3 "2012-07-26T22:31:33Z")
That’s the literal meaning of _datum_ (plural _data_). ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/4 "2012-07-26T22:36:05Z")
I’m pretty sure ‘a priori’ is what I was looking for, and I can make it work. Thanks so much for all responses! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/5 "2012-07-26T22:37:16Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/6 "2012-07-27T04:29:03Z")
Although it is a related idea, _a priori_ does not really mean “given”, it means capable of being known for certain beforehand, before any evidence is gathered. If something is known _a priori_, it can’t possibly be wrong, no matter what new empirical evidence might be discovered. (An example might be 1 + 1 = 2. We can be confident that no evidence is going to be discovered to disprove that.) Describing something as “taken as a given,” by contrast, usually means that although it has been taken to be true, it actually might not be. It looks as though that meaning is what you are after. “_A priori_” will not make much sense, or convey the meaning you want, in your example sentence (not even if you change things around a bit). You could say “Person X has never been under scrutiny for Y problem, because it was taken as a datum that the problem does not exist for him/her.” That is technically correct, but sounds very stilted, and invites misunderstanding. “Taken as axiomatic” is better, but if it were me I would just use “given”. It is perfectly good formal English, and it conveys your intended meaning clearly and concisely. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/7 "2012-07-27T16:12:03Z")
Another word for this concept is _postulate_. The postulates of an argument are those things that are assumed true; if you accept the postulates, you have to either challenge the logic or accept the conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/8 "2012-07-27T18:53:27Z")
premises? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/9 "2012-07-27T19:25:14Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > Another word for this concept is _postulate_. The postulates of an argument are those things that are assumed true; if you accept the postulates, you have to either challenge the logic or accept the conclusion. > [@MrDibble](#): > > premises? It does help if you actually read the OP before answering, you know. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/10 "2012-07-27T20:26:12Z")
_A priori_ is good, but sometimes you might want to say “postulated” if you were actually doing a proof. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/11 "2012-07-27T21:19:29Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > It does help if you actually read the OP before answering, you know. :rolleyes: I read the OP, especially the bit where it said: “something assumed to be true from which we can proceed to do proofs or draw conclusions” Now let’s look up “[premise](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/premise)”: > [@](#): > > from Medieval Latin premissa (“set before”) (premissa propositio (“the proposition set before”)) > […] > premise (plural premises) > > ``` > A proposition antecedently supposed or proved; something previously stated or assumed as the basis of further argument; a condition; a supposition. > (logic) Any of the first propositions of a syllogism, from which the conclusion is deduced. > > ``` And “Person X has never been under scrutiny for Y problem, because it was taken as a premise that the problem does not exist for him/her” is a perfectly cromulent sentence, TYVM. Look at that :dubious: Now it may not have been exactly what the OP intended, but it fits perfectly well with what the OP actually asked, given that the OP wasn’t _certain_ it was Latin or Greek, and wasn’t suggested in the subsequent thread, AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vegetable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Space\_Vegetable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vegetable)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/12 "2012-07-27T22:17:31Z")
_Axiom_ is another option: “Person X has never been under scrutiny for Y problem, because it was taken as an axiom that the problem does not exist for him/her.” or “Person X has never been under scrutiny for Y problem, because it was taken as axiomatic that the problem does not exist for him/her.” Also, _ab initio_ is Latin for “from the beginning”: “Person X has been scrutiny-free _ab initio_ for Y problem.” ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/13 "2012-07-27T22:19:29Z")
Axiomatic seems to me as well to be a decent fit. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/14 "2012-07-27T22:27:24Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Axiomatic seems to me as well to be a decent fit. That’s the word I came up with as well. I have no idea what language the word is, but in math, that’s the word we use to mean ‘given’ as in, ‘here’s a set of axioms…you can’t change these rules, period.’ ETA, ‘given’ makes more sense in your sentence (the OP). I can see saying that it’s a given that problem doesn’t exist for someone, but not an axiom. I know math proofs don’t always hold up to day to day life/gossip, but ISTM the axiom would be the first part of the sentence and you would use that to prove the second part. But axiomatic still sounds nice. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/15 "2012-07-28T02:01:03Z")
_Axiomatic_ came to me as well, though a word that fits the sentence without necessarily being a fit for the OP’s definition is _implicit_. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/16 "2012-07-28T02:08:07Z")
I would say _assumed_ or perhaps _presumed_, if you prefer. **Person _X_ has never been under scrutiny for _Y_ problem, because it was assumed from the beginning that the problem does not exist for him or her.** ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/17 "2012-07-28T02:34:34Z")
BTW, “given” is perfectly formal and precise. Latinate words aren’t necessarily better than the Germanic ones. “Given” derives from Old Norse. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/18 "2012-07-30T04:35:45Z")
On occasion the scholarly expression _ab ovo_ (from the seed, from its very beginning) is appropriate. Here I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-term-possible-latin-meaning-pre-existing-or-given/629500/19 "2012-08-05T03:20:43Z")
Gosh I just re-visited this thread after a few days hiatus. Thanks all for the excellent analysis.