# Looking for a Word - Original, Authentic Version of a Play **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516 "2015-08-11T02:16:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/1 "2015-08-11T02:16:18Z")
I once knew this term - it means ‘the presentation is the same as the historical version’, and refers specifically to theatrical production. Synonym for ‘definitive’, but industry-specific. The specific case: The opening scene in _Showboat!_ which has been Bowdlerized for language. 5 minutes after posting, I’ll remember it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/2 "2015-08-11T02:23:46Z")
There’s the “canonical” version, which, however, isn’t quite the “original” version, but the version everyone has come to agree upon over time. “Holographic,” perhaps? The hand-written original? ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/3 "2015-08-11T03:17:01Z")
‘Canonical’ is very close, and my mind might have wandered, but it doesn’t fully ‘click’ for me. I want to think it begins with a softer sound - f or v or maybe l. Just went through a dictionary of theatrical terms - ‘loge’ (aka ‘lodge’) was there, but no reference to versions of plays. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/4 "2015-08-11T03:21:53Z")
It has the sense of ‘Ultimate Authority’ - the kind of thing in which nobody can deny that it is correct. “The \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ answer is X, but for you are probably thinking of Y” kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/5 "2015-08-11T08:39:18Z")
I don’t know that it is industry specific but there is the German prefix ‘Ur’ that you could use. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/6 "2015-08-11T08:46:37Z")
You don’t mean **folio** do you? As in [Shakespeare’s First Folio](http://www.bl.uk/collection-items/shakespeares-first-folio). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/7 "2015-08-11T08:49:05Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > I don’t know that it is industry specific but there is the German prefix ‘Ur’ that you could use. As in [Urtext](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urtext). ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/8 "2015-08-11T11:34:54Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > You don’t mean **folio** do you? As in [Shakespeare’s First Folio](http://www.bl.uk/collection-items/shakespeares-first-folio). He may but the word has no connotation of originality. It’s simply a printing format, eg octavo, quarto, folio. It has to do with the size of paper used. Many of Shakespeare’s plays were published individually in quarto form before the 1622 collected edition published in the much larger folio size. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/9 "2015-08-11T16:33:09Z")
[Unexpurgated](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unexpurgated) is a cromulent word for the situation you describe. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/10 "2015-08-12T00:42:22Z")
> [@D18](#): > > [Unexpurgated](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unexpurgated) is a cromulent word for the situation you describe. My, but that was a great response, but - no, it does not have the sense of ‘uncut’, just ultimate, un-disputable, in the sense of ‘back when everybody knew the subject’, or ‘if you want to get technical’ - it is a pedant’s delight. Oh well, my spelling has gone to Hell, so my memory can’t be too far behind. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/11 "2015-08-12T04:04:02Z")
Well, there’s “seminal,” which carries the sense of the _original_ original, but that’s more of the first to tell the story. There’s an original _Hamlet_ written by Shakespeare, but the seminal Hamlet story is the legend of [Amleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amleth). ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/12 "2015-08-12T05:52:52Z")
An even better (more obscure) word. May have to settle for _seminal_ - but damn, I want something that makes me say Eureka! ---
**Author:** ![half-elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@half-elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/half-elf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/13 "2015-08-12T12:37:51Z")
Doesn’t exactly fit the definition but kind of similar and begins with one of the letters you specified so I’m submitting it for your consideration: verbatim. Could it be that? ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/14 "2015-08-12T12:48:58Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > My, but that was a great response, but - no, it does not have the sense of ‘uncut’, just ultimate, un-disputable, in the sense of ‘back when everybody knew the subject’, or ‘if you want to get technical’ - it is a pedant’s delight. > > Oh well, my spelling has gone to Hell, so my memory can’t be too far behind. I was focussing more on the reference to bowdlerization. Looking forward to learning the mystery word! When I’ve seen this situation (minus the bowdlerization) referenced in reviews, I can’t think of a given word, but phrases like “a faithful remounting/recreation/etc. of the original production” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/15 "2015-08-12T21:41:09Z")
Nope: verbatim means “exact same words”. Looks like I will go to my crematorium\* without finding this silly word. - - others go to their graves. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/16 "2015-08-13T06:10:04Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Well, there’s “seminal,” which carries the sense of the _original_ original, but that’s more of the first to tell the story. There’s an original _Hamlet_ written by Shakespeare, but the seminal Hamlet story is the legend of [Amleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amleth). As I was busy (trying to) elsewhere, the word ‘seminal’ popped into mind. This must be it, and it just took a while to come to mind. Thanks for all the suggestions, folks! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/17 "2015-08-13T09:13:20Z")
I think seminal means something more to do with influence - e.g., an inspiration for some new development or style adopted widely by others (obviously, given the metaphor!) For the sense of an undisputed original, my first thought was urtext, as suggested above. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/18 "2015-08-13T13:05:34Z")
I think “authoritative manuscript” or “urtext” are the most likely to be used, with slightly different implications for each. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/19 "2015-08-13T14:26:51Z")
Musicologist (ex) here: ditto urtext. But the word, particularly in the performing arts and depending on culture and time, could be suspect unless qualified: the “original text” of a Shakespeare play, say, may never be known, as there may never have been one, and Shakespeare would have understood that inevitability. The state of “Ur”-nes-- of the medieval _opus perfectum_ (a completed “perfect” work, from which we get “Opus” numbers for composers)–has been a matter of historical inquiry of the arts for only a few centuries. Not to say that some artistic creators wouldn’t disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516/20 "2015-08-14T12:16:17Z")
> [@D18](#): > > [Unexpurgated](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unexpurgated) is a cromulent word for the situation you describe. This post made me feel exceedingly gruntled. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-original-authentic-version-of-a-play/727516.md?page=2)