# Looking for advice with bully at work **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 24, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197 "2011-07-24T19:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/41 "2011-07-25T14:40:15Z")
Since you work at a law firm I would suggest this… 1. Wait until he grabs you around the neck again. 2. Struggle slightly. 3. Scream out in pain. 4. Claim a neck injury. From there on out it should be pretty fun. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/42 "2011-07-25T16:38:18Z")
I hate that it is this way, but since he’s a partner and a friend of your articling supervisor, I also think you probably need to get through the next two months without making more trouble for yourself than the results will be worth. I agree with all the documenting, and presenting it to your articling supervisor after you’re out of the danger zone of negative repercussions. I worked at a company where the co-owner and head of accounting was nicknamed Psycho Bitch From Hell. She got away with everything, and her company is still successful, as far as I know. People don’t always get what they deserve, beyond having to live with themselves. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/43 "2011-07-25T17:00:37Z")
Do the other employees have a problem with the way he behaves? It might just be part of the culture of that office and everyone enjoys it except you. Not saying it’s right, but company cultures vary. It’s possible the females that are on the receiving end of the inappropriate comments you’ve heard him make are ok with it, and could even enjoy it. Maybe they don’t, but do you know one way or the other for sure? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/44 "2011-07-25T17:23:50Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Two months left? > > Document, but otherwise ignore the bully and continue on with your career. > > Once you are away from that firm, you might wish to report him to le Barreau du Québec so a to help protect future articling students, but expect retaliation by him ranging from a libel action and ongoing animosity against you. > > It comes down to finding a balance between how important it is to you to bring the bully’s behaviour to light verses getting on with your career with minimal embuggerance. This is excellent advice. I might add that if you feel you must say something to somebody, speak with the Barreau’s Practice Advisor. He or she is supposed to deal with all kinds of ethical issues, including these; and you can speak with the Practice Advisor in confidence. Overall, though, I agree with **Muffin** : Finish your articles, and then find someplace else to practice. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/45 "2011-07-25T18:16:15Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > You pushed me and then placed yourself behind me and placed your arm around my neck. You then pushed me into another room in that position. Assuming it was his right arm around your neck and he’s pushing you forward. As he’s pushing you forward, step forward with your left foot and grab his right arm with your right hand. Step forward and DROP down onto your right knee, bending forward and to the left. Use your weight for momentum, don’t simply pull hom, or he will have a chance to resist. If you’re nice, you do this into an open space and he just flies over you and lands on the floor. If you’re not nice, there is a concrete pillar or a table a couple of feet in front of you. Then start screaming bloody murder and insist someone call the cops because you have just been assaulted and you’d better press charges or they’re probably going to fire YOU. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/46 "2011-07-25T18:54:29Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > There has never been, there isn’t and there never will be…what? Ambiguity or consent? Need to make that clear in an email that you are sending to lawyers… Yeah, this is a pretty bad email, and was probably written while impassioned. “This email has for object?” I would not send that email, the purpose of which is unclear at best. What I would do is the next time it happens (or looks like it is about to), just loudly and clearly say “GEORGE, PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH ME. It bothers me.” He will probably then come back at you with some verbal blather that denigrates you. Fucking ignore every word of it. Then say “George, thanks for respecting my wish not to be touched.” ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/47 "2011-07-25T19:29:37Z")
Yeah, I don’t see anything here ending well if it begins with veiled threats of lawsuits. I see three options (Defintely 1, and add 2 or 3 as you like): 1. Tough it out for two months. Like you said, not as bad as bootcamp, and you survived that. 2. Get in the jerk’s face and let him know you do not want to be touched. (“Listen, I do not appreciate that, and I expect you’ll immediately stop.”) Believe me, this will go over far, far better in every way than a whiny, veiled threat of lawsuit via email. And hey, if he gets crazy and actually hits you, THEN you’ve got a winning lawsuit. 3. Talk to your boss about it. Don’t whine, and emphasize that you can take it (even though you don’t like it), but let your boss know that he might lose some good employees if this kind of thing keeps up. Remind him that the smarter the employee, the less likely they’ll appreciate this crap. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/48 "2011-07-25T19:43:56Z")
Quercus, Others have told him to cut out that behavior and he has not stopped. Using a written medium is preferable because it leaves traces. Short of using a bailiff to deliver a note or video footage, email is the way to say something to someone and have proof that it was said. ---
**Author:** ![FasterThanMeerkats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@FasterThanMeerkats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FasterThanMeerkats)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/49 "2011-07-25T21:08:01Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > There aren’t higher-ups really, it’s a firm with 6 lawyers. > … > The guy is about 40 years old. He’s very good at law and excellent at getting clients. There you go. It’s a small firm and he’s bringing in clients in the middle of a recession, so the other partners like the money he brings in more than they dislike his antics. Suck it up for for 2 months, get your recommendation or whatever, and move on. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/50 "2011-07-25T22:36:15Z")
He is a producer and you are (effectively) a non-entity. It is unlikely there will be a good ending to this for you re sending that email unless he’s been called out on this behavior before, and this is the last straw. You are (I’m assuming) a man so there will also be a built in bias by others to see your complaining about being “touched” as a bit drama queeny. In high performance, male centric environments, even fairly professional environments, many employees are ex-athletes and physical horseplay between men is not unknown, but there is usually a level of implied peer consent involved. It sounds like he’s not really picking up the vibe that you are not onboard with this. I think a word with your immediate boss that this guy really needs to gauge his boundaries better or problems are likely to ensue will work better than firing off an email accusing him of bullying bad touch. ---
**Author:** ![Parsimony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Parsimony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parsimony)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/51 "2011-07-26T00:41:23Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > It would reflect quite poorly on my articling supervisor from the point of view of the bar. As some of the other posters have said talk to your supervisor and if he does not do anything about it then file your complaint with whatever governing organization you have. No mater if you like your supervisor or not if he/she is alowing the behavior to continue then it should reflect poorly on him/her. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/52 "2011-07-26T03:34:59Z")
> [@justrob](#): > > Since you work at a law firm I would suggest this… > > 1. Wait until he grabs you around the neck again. > 2. Struggle slightly. > 3. Scream out in pain. > 4. Claim a neck injury. > > From there on out it should be pretty fun. 🙂 Close. Fake an injury, but not an injury that he caused. Rather, let it be known that you are meeting a friend for some activity like basketball, mountain biking, etc. over the weekend. Walk into work on Monday with your arm in a sling, saying you tweaked your shoulder. Maybe wear it all week, but next time the jerk touches you just wince in pain and say “Dude, my shoulder! What the hell is wrong with you?” Of course, you need to remember which shoulder you injured. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/53 "2011-07-26T03:50:00Z")
Why not just tell him Listen “douche bag” don’t touch me. He sounds like an idiot, so he’s probably not going to take you serioulsy the first time. So you may have to repeat it while raising your voice while adding an expletive or two. “I said get your fucking hands off me, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?” You shouldn’t have to put up with that shit. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/54 "2011-07-26T14:50:47Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Why not just tell him > > Listen “douche bag” don’t touch me. > > He sounds like an idiot, so he’s probably not going to take you serioulsy the first time. > > So you may have to repeat it while raising your voice while adding an expletive or two. > > “I said get your fucking hands off me, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?” > > You shouldn’t have to put up with that shit. Being a tough guy is easy on the Internet, but in the real world of workplace politics, how in the world could you sincerely believe this would be a good career move for someone who is basically an intern? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/55 "2011-07-26T15:33:35Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Once you are away from that firm, you might wish to report him to le Barreau du Québec so a to help protect future articling students, but expect retaliation by him ranging from a libel action and ongoing animosity against you. You can file a libel action for a bar complaint in Quebec? That’s retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/56 "2011-07-26T16:15:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can file a libel action for a bar complaint in Quebec? That’s retarded. I doubt very much if a libel action could succeed based on a bar complaint in Quebec, for I expect privilege would apply. Certainly such an action would not suceed in Ontario ([Hamalengwa v. Duncan, 2005 ON CA C43045](http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2005/2005canlii33575/2005canlii33575.html)). A defamation action could arise out of communications made outside of the the formal bar complaint, including communications to other employees or principals. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/57 "2011-07-26T17:32:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can file a libel action for a bar complaint in Quebec? That’s retarded. Only if you file in both English and French. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/58 "2011-07-26T18:51:17Z")
All the great stuff in various laws about harassment and bodily contact is great in principle, but there are times when it just doesn’t work out. Years ago I temped for a law firm. I was assigned to this one guy who famously went through assistants, and he was vile. Inappropriate touching, constant leering, bad physical hygiene, horrible dental hygiene, and a truly tragic sense of droit du seigneur. After a mere couple of hours I called my temp agency and basically said, Get me out of here, if I have to go to another firm, I go to another firm! I was quickly transferred to another one of the firm’s problem lawyers who was not such a problem for me. The first guy? He was infamous. Everybody knew what he was up to (except, I guess, his wife). CLIENTS asked for somebody else. But he was a sr. partner, brought in business, had great contacts, etc., etc., etc. The law firm just resigned itself to hiring lots of temps in sequence. Combat pay, etc. Another time was when I worked for a marketing/PR firm. We had this CLIENT who would: grab our asses, grab our HAIR and plant a kiss on us, and once he grabbed a woman’s breast (I didn’t see this, but I believe her). When he came to the office we all edged away. We complained to our boss; he said, “Don’t rock the boat! He’s the decision-maker of the client who can keep us all going! Okay, I’m not asking you to whore yourselves out, but just don’t be rude, okay?” Is decking the jerk considered rude? The power imbalance thing is always going to be there. Too bad we don’t routinely have hairpins on our persons anymore. There are things that women can do (Oops, spike heel to the instep, my mistake! I must’ve stumbled!) but I don’t know what guys are supposed to do, I assume you have your own arsenal. In some cases–many, many cases–this “file your claim with the proper authorities” is just a sad joke. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/59 "2011-07-26T19:30:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, I’m not asking you to whore yourselves out, but just don’t be rude, okay? So he was asking you to put up with everything but outright sex, right? I wish I had a solution. About the only thing I can think of is to suddenly develop a trick knee or something, as someone said upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197/60 "2011-07-26T21:12:54Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Being a tough guy is easy on the Internet, but in the real world of workplace politics, how in the world could you sincerely believe this would be a good career move for someone who is basically an intern? I don’t know about you but that type of behaviour is over the top and likely would bother most of us. Telling the person to stop it is hardly being an internet tough guy. I’m not advocating throwing fists with the guy. My point regarding the expletives is, it would appear to me this type of individual doesn’t seem bright enough to get it when you ask him the first time. I’d suggest your seriously underestimating the power of a raised voice in order to get a point driven home. The expletives are optional So what if he is an intern. It’s a chance worth taking, it’ll empower him and make him feel better. There’s nothing worse than someone getting in your personal space when it’s unwanted. Especially in a working environment from a superior. He could be doing other future interns a favour. If he does confront in this manner I’d only suggest he have witnesses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-advice-with-bully-at-work/590197.md?page=2)