# Looking for any evidence of ancient Chinese microcredit/micro-financing (Song Dynasty) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139 "2018-03-24T23:57:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/1 "2018-03-24T23:57:50Z")
Hi I’m looking for any evidence of ancient Chinese microcredit/micro-financing, in particular during the Song Dynasty. I couldn’t find any evidence of it. I thought it was a modern concept. I look forward to your feedback. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/2 "2018-03-25T03:49:23Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > I’m looking for any evidence of ancient Chinese microcredit/micro-financing, in particular during the Song Dynasty. I couldn’t find any evidence of it. I thought it was a modern concept. I look forward to your feedback. ??? While I’m not familiar with the Song Dynasty, I’m pretty sure micro-credit / micro-financing preceded banking. The Christian /Muslim /Jewish /Babylonian restrictions on usury apply to micro-credit. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/3 "2018-03-27T02:05:45Z")
I just bought this book: > **[Money Changes Everything: How Finance Made Civilization Possible: Goetzmann,...](https://www.amazon.com/Money-Changes-Everything-Civilization-Possible/dp/0691178372)** > > Money Changes Everything: How Finance Made Civilization Possible \[Goetzmann, William N., Goetzmann, William N.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Money Changes Everything: How Finance Made Civilization Possible Just started it and I know there is a section on ancient or Medieval Chinese finance, not sure if they cover the Song Dynasty or not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/4 "2018-03-27T05:36:38Z")
Typically, up to today, the clan/village financed the best and brightest to go out in the world and make a return. Historically and today. Certainly true of my father in law’s village over the past 100 years and I’m sure back to the Qin dynasty. But it’s a clan thing because only the clan direct inheritors live in the village (typically daughters marry off to other villages). Certainly true today. Now whether clan pooled financing is considered “micro financing” I’ll leave to you to resolve. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/5 "2018-03-27T13:49:58Z")
If you thought it was only modern, and you can’t find any evidence of it in olden times, then why are you even asking? Surely that would only reinforce your prior assumption? Is someone claiming otherwise, and if so, who and where? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/6 "2018-03-28T16:33:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you thought it was only modern, and you can’t find any evidence of it in olden times, then why are you even asking? Surely that would only reinforce your prior assumption? Is someone claiming otherwise, and if so, who and where? The world is filled with obscure things that are true, have happened, and are interesting to study but unknown except to experts. The world is also filled with supposedly modern concepts that actually date back hundreds if not thousands of years. Is the OP an example of one? No idea. But I sure don’t understand why you think the question shouldn’t be asked. An answer of “no” is better than not knowing. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-any-evidence-of-ancient-chinese-microcredit-micro-financing-song-dynasty/811139/7 "2018-04-06T15:23:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The world is filled with obscure things that are true, have happened, and are interesting to study but unknown except to experts. The world is also filled with supposedly modern concepts that actually date back hundreds if not thousands of years. > > Is the OP an example of one? No idea. But I sure don’t understand why you think the question shouldn’t be asked. An answer of “no” is better than not knowing. Thank you all. I’ll keep searching. I was basing my question on something I had overheard on microcredit in ancient China, but couldn’t find any reference to it.