# Looking for complex and/or smart detective fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006 "2018-05-28T23:22:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/21 "2018-05-29T16:58:27Z")
> [@RunSilent](#): > > For police detective fiction I suggest the novels by Michael Connelly, Jo Nesbo, Henning Mankell, and Arnaldur Indridason. The one book I read by Indridason was really good, and (as is the theme for detective fiction from the Nordic countries for me) really depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/22 "2018-05-29T16:59:10Z")
**Exapno Mapcase @15:**. Bill Marshall and I were drinking buddies during the five years he lived in NYC. I was his editor on the last four Yellowthread Street novels, plus the two books in The New York Detective series. I agree that’s he’s excellent, and should be much better known. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/23 "2018-05-29T17:53:56Z")
So how was it working with James Ellroy? “Not easy” would be my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/24 "2018-05-29T22:48:30Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Nick Harkaway is great. [_Angelmaker_](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/feb/12/nick-harkaway-angelmaker-review) is what Neal Stephenson would write if he remembered to be entertaining and have proper endings. Also it has clockwork robot bees. Totally agreed–Angelmaker is my favorite by him, but **Gone-Away World** is similar madcap-but-substantial fun. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/25 "2018-05-29T23:02:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Totally agreed–Angelmaker is my favorite by him, but **Gone-Away World** is similar madcap-but-substantial fun. And until I read the Guardian review, I had no idea he was the son of John Le Carré. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/26 "2018-05-30T00:10:58Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > And until I read the Guardian review, I had no idea he was the son of John Le Carré. I feel like his heritage is coming through increasingly in his novels: his first two were madcap with just a touch of dread (and yeah, I’m including the post-apocalyptic one there). Tigerman was like just the general sense of corruption of Le Carre. Gnomon is much closer to Le Carre’s bleak world-view. I love me some Le Carre, but can only manage one of his novels every five years or so, because I know from the first page how thoroughly the forces of light will be defeated in the last chapter, and it makes me want to crawl under my bed. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/27 "2018-05-30T00:17:13Z")
Ben Aaronovitch’s _Rivers of London_ series. Colin Cotterill’s Dr. Siri Paiboun mysteries about a coroner in Laos. The first one is _The Coroner’s Lunch_. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/28 "2018-05-30T03:25:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I feel like his heritage is coming through increasingly in his novels: his first two were madcap with just a touch of dread (and yeah, I’m including the post-apocalyptic one there). Tigerman was like just the general sense of corruption of Le Carre. Gnomon is much closer to Le Carre’s bleak world-view. > > I love me some Le Carre, but can only manage one of his novels every five years or so, because I know from the first page how thoroughly the forces of light will be defeated in the last chapter, and it makes me want to crawl under my bed. I didn’t pick up on the tension between Joshua wanting to be his own man and not just his father’s son and then embracing his heritage to gather his Dad’s old allies and assault Shem and his forces until I learnt the family connection between Harkaway and Le Carre. Also that was a _glorious_ ending. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/29 "2018-05-30T18:30:43Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > Double dog on “Motherless Brooklyn.” It’s original and well-written. Yeah, it’s great! > [@](#): > > Off the beaten path, “The Intuitionist” by Colson Whitehead features a detective-type woman who investigates elevator mysteries. It’s very difficult to explain, it’s a smart and thoroughly original novel. She’s an elevator inspector in a slightly different world where that’s a really important profession, complete with competing academic approaches and some very shady professional politics. Seconded – it’s really well-written and has an original premise. I believe it was Whitehead’s first novel? He’s another literary writer who, like Lethem and Mieville, plays well in different genre sandboxes. (I worked at a bookstore that had an elevator that occasionally needed service or inspection – I always tried to show _The Intuitionist_ to the elevator inspectors/repairers if we had a copy in stock, since it’s probably the most loving/intense cultural tribute their professions have ever received. One of them did buy it, once! I’ve always wondered if he liked it.) Remembered two more stretches that aren’t really detective novels, but are definitely crime novels: 1)\* Beat the Reaper \*by Josh Bazell. Smart and funny first-person novel about an ex-hitman/current medical intern in Witness Protection who gets recognized by his old colleagues. Uses a lite version of DF Wallace’s footnotes to good effect, and has a strong first-person voice. Has one of the most memorable final plot twists I’ve read. [Beat the Reaper (Peter Brown, #1) by Josh Bazell | Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3173125-beat-the-reaper) 1. \*The Business \*by Iain Banks. Literary conspiracy thriller. A Goodreads reviewer says it’s like if Evelyn Waugh had written Grisham’s _The Firm_, which is pretty close IMHO. [The Business by Iain Banks | Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/290583.The_Business) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/30 "2018-05-30T19:12:34Z")
Many of the best crime novels are not whodunnits. And, IMO, some of the better crime novels are from the 1940’s or so. I recommend [John le Carré’s _Murder of Quality_ (1962)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Murder_of_Quality). It was his 2nd novel and a whodunnit, very different from his later books. (IMO, if you want to read le Carré, the earlier the book, the better.) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/31 "2018-05-31T00:33:55Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > - Beat the Reaper \*by Josh Bazell. Smart and funny first-person novel about an ex-hitman/current medical intern in Witness Protection who gets recognized by his old colleagues. Uses a lite version of DF Wallace’s footnotes to good effect, and has a strong first-person voice. Has one of the most memorable final plot twists I’ve read. [Beat the Reaper (Peter Brown, #1) by Josh Bazell | Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3173125-beat-the-reaper) Agree on the unique “voice” (part of which is way over-the-top attitude from the protagonist). Wish I could find more stuff like this. Well, at least there’s a sequel: _Wild Thing._ ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/32 "2018-05-31T00:42:44Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Many years ago I took a detective fiction class at university. One of the books we read was _When we were orphans_ by Ishiguro seems to check off a lot of your boxes (and it’s really good as well.) I’ll echo this recommendation. I picked this book up in the library and looked it over on several occasions before checking it out, because the cover description made it sound like a not-very-interesting historic romance. It turns out this was misleading, and in fact there’s barely a romance in it at all. While I’d say it’s far from Ishiguro’s best book, I liked it well enough and it has a lot of what the OP is looking for. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/33 "2018-05-31T00:43:26Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > - Beat the Reaper \*by Josh Bazell. Smart and funny first-person novel about an ex-hitman/current medical intern in Witness Protection Missed the edit to mention that almost all the crime fiction books I’ve been “reading” lately are audiobooks. Robert Petkoff does a great job with Josh Bazell’s books. Although no one pairs as well as Grover Gardner doing David Rosenfelt’s Andy Carpenter series (which started out as a light, fun crime/courtroom series, and morphed into “light, fun crime/courtroom series… with dogs”). But rereading the OP, these are smart, but not at all complex… ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/34 "2018-05-31T00:46:40Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Yeah, it’s great! > > She’s an elevator inspector in a slightly different world where that’s a really important profession, complete with competing academic approaches and some very shady professional politics. Seconded – it’s really well-written and has an original premise. I believe it was Whitehead’s first novel? He’s another literary writer who, like Lethem and Mieville, plays well in different genre sandboxes. > > (I worked at a bookstore that had an elevator that occasionally needed service or inspection – I always tried to show _The Intuitionist_ to the elevator inspectors/repairers if we had a copy in stock, since it’s probably the most loving/intense cultural tribute their professions have ever received. One of them did buy it, once! I’ve always wondered if he liked it.) > > Remembered two more stretches that aren’t really detective novels, but are definitely crime novels: > > 1)\* Beat the Reaper \*by Josh Bazell. Smart and funny first-person novel about an ex-hitman/current medical intern in Witness Protection who gets recognized by his old colleagues. Uses a lite version of DF Wallace’s footnotes to good effect, and has a strong first-person voice. Has one of the most memorable final plot twists I’ve read. [Beat the Reaper (Peter Brown, #1) by Josh Bazell | Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3173125-beat-the-reaper) > > 1. \*The Business \*by Iain Banks. Literary conspiracy thriller. A Goodreads reviewer says it’s like if Evelyn Waugh had written Grisham’s _The Firm_, which is pretty close IMHO. [The Business by Iain Banks | Goodreads](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/290583.The_Business) This, Sir/Ma’am, is the best synopsis of Intuisionist ever written Bravo/a! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/35 "2018-05-31T15:49:26Z")
You can’t go wrong with [Jorge Luis Borges](http://www.postmodernmystery.com/ficciones.html). The most complex and smartest detective fiction I’ve ever come across. Borges won a special Edgar Allen Poe Award in 1976 for distinguished contribution to the mystery genre. “Death and the Compass” “The Garden of Forking Paths” “The Approach to al-Mu‘tasim” “An Examination of the Work of Herbert Quain” (which is detective metafiction) “Ibn Hakam al-Bokhari, Murdered in his Labyrinth” “The Man on the Threshold” _Six Problems for Don Isidro Parodi_ “Theme of the Traitor and the Hero” “Tlön, Uqbar, Orbus Tertius” ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/36 "2018-05-31T16:03:35Z")
Not precisely detective fiction, but crime fiction, about a Tokyo-based assassin — Barry Eisler’s series about John Rain. Be aware that after leaving his publisher he republished most of them under a different title, so don’t buy two of the same book. Nothing to do with Japan, but the best detective fiction I’ve read lately is John Sandford’s \*Prey \*series, up to about 25 books now. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/37 "2018-05-31T16:31:24Z")
I was a little disappointed in Horowitz’ **Magpie Murders** , but right now, I don’t remember why. I’ll add Harry Dolan’s **Bad Things Happen** to the list. Thank you for starting this thread. I will look for many of the recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Cartesian\_Rationalist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Cartesian\_Rationalist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartesian_Rationalist)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/38 "2018-05-31T19:04:28Z")
Awesome recommendations. I should’ve made clear that what I consider ‘smart’ other people may consider not too clever, so I just wanted to emphasize ‘something a bit different’. I very much enjoyed Yokohama’s _Six Four_, though I understand why people may consider it too political and slow, I thought it was a fascinating cultural and procedural book. I also enjoy Pessl’s _Nightfilm_, though that was more because of the experimental aspect than the detective story proper. These all look great and are very much what I wanted, many thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/39 "2018-05-31T19:05:29Z")
Truman Capote took such liberties in telling the tale that I consider _In Cold Blood_ (1965) to be a novel, not nonfiction, about several notorious Kansas murders and their aftermath. Nicholas Meyer’s _The Seven-Per-Cent Solution_ (1976) is a Sherlock Holmes pastiche. Robert Harris’s _Fatherland_ (1992) is an alternative-history murder mystery set in 1964 Nazi Germany. Tim O’Brien’s _In the Lake of the Woods_ (1994) is a psychological thriller about a failed political candidate whose wife disappears under suspicious circumstances. _The No. 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency_ by Alexander McCall Smith (2001) is a collection of folksy tales about Botswana’s first female detective and her varied cases. In _Rumpole and the Penge Bungalow Murders_ by John Mortimer (2004), a crusty old London barrister recalls the case which first brought him fame. All different; all excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/40 "2018-06-01T22:47:44Z")
I would suggest the Kramer and Zondi mysteries by James McClure. They are set in apartheid South Africa. I first read The Artful Egg, and it caused me to seek out the others in the series. For dense mysteries, the Inspector Armand Gamache books by Louise Penny are very good. My issue with them is that often it seems that the plot and mystery is secondary to everything else. Penny writes with a sense of humor. I listen to books on tape and the original reader really makes the novels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006.md?page=3)