# Looking for complex and/or smart detective fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006 "2018-05-28T23:22:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/41 "2018-06-01T23:14:35Z")
For the offbeat and complex, Christopher Fowler’s Bryant and May mysteries, set in London, with two old geezers in charge of the investigations, are terrific. Slow-paced, not thrillers. Here’s a link to his page of books on his site. [https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/christopher-fowler/1005086/](https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/christopher-fowler/1005086/) Really. Bryant and May for the offbeat, slow-paced, and detailed, Harry Dolan’s Bad Things Happened for elegant, spare prose, twists, and you can’t put it down until it ends. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/42 "2018-06-02T00:23:09Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Tokyo Trilogy - immediate post-WW2 Tokyo, wrapped around historical killings. Surreal and painful. > PS - just scrolled down the Wikipedia page. The long-awaited third Tokyo book is out!!! Hot damn! I don’t think the Wikipedia page is accurate. I’m someone who’s read most of Peace, but has a bias towards reading things likes declared trilogies as a set, so I’ve been waiting for that third novel for some time. But [this recent _Guardian_ interview](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/mar/23/david-mitchell-david-peace-conversation) makes it clear that his new _Patient X_, to whose publication it’s tied, is not part of the trilogy. > [@](#): > > I’m working on the third book of the Tokyo trilogy, which is called _Redux_. I’ve been working on it for nigh on 10 years and the various abandoned drafts must run to well over half a million words. _Redux_ has been a big part of these last 15 years, since we first met, and been neglected at times because of some of the changes during those years. The routine has fundamentally remained the same: I work from eight to four, seven days a week. But I’m much less confident in my writing than I used to be, and often feel paralysed by doubt. I’ve slowed down: I can’t believe I managed to publish eight books between 1999 and 2009, but I’m very aware there have only been two books since then. But I’m also aware this is not unique to me and I have a quote from Jean Genet above my desk, which keeps me going: “… after a brilliant period every artist traverses a desperate country and risks losing his reason and mastery. But if he comes out of it victorious …” I work in hope. Given that the UK reviews of _Patient X_ - which, for that matter, doesn’t seem like a thriller - have been pretty lukewarm, I may skip it. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/43 "2018-06-02T02:31:11Z")
Thanks for the Guardian link Bonzer. I think there were a lot of us hanging around waiting for Peace to pull his finger out. I bought Patient X a few days ago, and it was clear then it wasn’t part of the trilogy. Only a few dozen pages in but finding it the usual dense and obtuse Peace read. Enjoying it so far. ---
**Author:** ![Rough\_Draft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@Rough\_Draft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rough_Draft)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/44 "2018-06-02T03:38:53Z")
Along with some more experimental works, Kate Atkinson has written several novels featuring private eye Jackson Brodie. They’re barely mysteries at all, just really good literature (in my opinion anyway). _Case Histories_ and _When Will There be Good News?_ are a couple whose titles I can recall. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/45 "2018-06-02T23:01:11Z")
_Lock In_ by John Scalzi is a lot of fun. _Guards! Guards!_ and other novels about the Discworld City Watch are also great, especially _Night Watch_. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/46 "2018-06-03T16:53:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > [The Yiddish Policeman’s Union](https://www.harpercollins.com/9780007149827/the-yiddish-policemens-union/), by Michael Chabon, is set in the Jewish resettlement camp of Sitka, Alaska–which IIRC was an actual historical proposal. I don’t remember the mystery so well as the setting. Chabon is a damn fine writer. > … I actually popped in to recommend this one. I’m not a big reader of mysteries but I had this one from Audible and it’s a good story. The audiobook isn’t great though - the reader is Pete Riegert (I think), and the characters blurred together and I often lost track of scene changes and character changes. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/47 "2018-06-03T19:08:13Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I actually popped in to recommend this one. I’m not a big reader of mysteries but I had this one from Audible and it’s a good story. The audiobook isn’t great though - the reader is Pete Riegert (I think), and the characters blurred together and I often lost track of scene changes and character changes. I just spent most of a wedding reception trading audiobook recommendations with another guest. We ended up zeroing in on the best narrators. Because nothing’s worse than trying to figure out who’s who. One reader (the late great Frank Muller, I think) used to wallpaper the sound booth with hints and backstories on each character, so when King Charlie the First popped back into the story, he could instantly drop into his highness’s “Whitehall-by-way-of-Presbyterian-Scots” accent. I’ve been known to search for audiobooks by readers’ names. The problem being that someone like Scott Brick is great (especially at “innocent protagonist caught up in intrigue”, like Brad Meltzer’s _Zero Game),_ but has also read some drivel (well, okay, let’s be kind and call it “non-complex, non-smart fiction”, like Clive Cussler). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/48 "2018-06-03T19:22:31Z")
The work of Leonardo Sciascia (SHAH-shah) offers very good examples of smart detective fiction. In particular _The Wine-Dark Sea_ (translation of _Il Mare Colore del Vino_), _Equal Danger_ (translation of _Il Contesto_), and _To Each His Own_ (translation of _A Ciascuno il Suo_). ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/49 "2018-06-06T14:06:20Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I just spent most of a wedding reception trading audiobook recommendations with another guest. We ended up zeroing in on the best narrators. Because nothing’s worse than trying to figure out who’s who. > > One reader (the late great Frank Muller, I think) used to wallpaper the sound booth with hints and backstories on each character, so when King Charlie the First popped back into the story, he could instantly drop into his highness’s “Whitehall-by-way-of-Presbyterian-Scots” accent. > > I’ve been known to search for audiobooks by readers’ names. The problem being that someone like Scott Brick is great (especially at “innocent protagonist caught up in intrigue”, like Brad Meltzer’s _Zero Game),_ but has also read some drivel (well, okay, let’s be kind and call it “non-complex, non-smart fiction”, like Clive Cussler). On that note: Barbara Rosenblat is excellent. I got into her Amelia Peabody series (mysteries set in Egypt from about 1880 to 1920) specifically because I spotted an audiobook that she had read while browsing at the library. She tends to do “chick-lit mysteries” but I think anyone would enjoy the Peabody series. The narrator for the Outlander books is good as well (though they’re not mysteries). Neil Gaiman usually does his own narration (and he’s adequate), but Anansi Boys was done by Lenny Henry and Lenny really nailed it. There’s a series called The Rivers of London, by Ben Aaronovitch (first book was released as Midnight Riot in the US, as Rivers of London in the UK) that is a quirky mystery series with an ongoing overarching mystery that they’re just unravelling in the last one I’ve read so far. The premise: Peter Grant is a newly-minted police constable… who happens to have a bit of magical talent. This is spotted by the one member of the magical department in the Metropolitan Police Department, so he gets recruited and the two of them get all the weird cases. His mentor went to a private school for budding wizards (most of whom died in WW2), and gets peeved with Peter refers to the place as Hogwarts. Audible has a free short story in the series; the rest, I’ve ingested in dead tree (er, dead pixel) form. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/50 "2018-06-06T15:02:35Z")
I also recommend the 87th Precinct novels by Ed McBain, especially those featuring The Deaf Man. The first of those was called _The Heckler_. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/51 "2018-06-06T16:41:31Z")
> [@Cartesian\_Rationalist](#): > > Awesome recommendations. I should’ve made clear that what I consider ‘smart’ other people may consider not too clever, so I just wanted to emphasize ‘something a bit different’. How about [Samurai Boogie](https://smile.amazon.com/Samurai-Boogie-Peter-Tasker/dp/0752836765/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1528302673&sr=8-10&keywords=peter+tasker), a book about an aging PI in Tokyo? Here’s the synopsis: > [@](#): > > “Kazuo Mori, PI, is struggling to make ends meet. When he falls in with a prostitute called Angel, he is soon struggling for survival in a vicious game that has the Yakuza and Japan’s two major computer game makers as players. And on top of everything else, there is the rival agency that’s just set up and is undercutting him on every job. The only thing to do is set up in partnership with the eager young student who is taking his business. And it’s an arrangement with some unexpected bonuses.” I like this one better than the first Mori book, [Buddha Kiss](https://smile.amazon.com/Buddha-Kiss-Peter-Tasker/dp/0385485522/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528302673&sr=8-3&keywords=peter+tasker). The author is a British financial analyst who has lived in Japan for a couple of decades. I think Tasker’s filters processing Japanese culture helps me to understand things better and he certainly paints a gloriously riotous portrait with his prose. The plots are complicated and convoluted; his books often have a financial aspect to them that ties in to the violence and skullduggery, although not always in obvious or clearly deliberate ways. And the characters are fantastic: despite only appearing in these 2 books, Kazuo Mori is one of my all-time favorite PIs. I doubt anyone could forget Angel, either. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/52 "2018-06-06T16:50:41Z")
Tony Hillerman’s series is great. It explores contemporary life on Indian reservations, bringing in teh relationships between Tribal Police and the FBI, traditional culture and customs, and interesting mysteries. It’s good series, best read in order, so you can see the characters develop over time. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/53 "2018-06-06T18:45:54Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Hey! I was Ellroy’s EDITOR on that novel! One of the Central Avenue jazz clubs in it is named after me. > > I’m currently reading the early novels of another of my authors, K.C. Constantine. Western PA setting, great reading on the ethnic characters, deeply human. Best is **The Man Who Liked Slow Tomatoes.** > > Also highly recommend Peter Dickinson, recently deceased British mystery author. Bizarre, highly intellectual. Look for his first (1968) novel **The Glass-Sided Ants’ Nest** , and **The Poison Oracle** (1974), both of which are included in HRF Keating’s **100 Best Mystery Novels**. You can also read his last four adult books, which I edited! Wow. When I read the OP I immediately thought of James Ellroy. I am currently in complete awe of you. That book is amazing. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/54 "2018-06-07T00:02:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > How about [Samurai Boogie](https://smile.amazon.com/Samurai-Boogie-Peter-Tasker/dp/0752836765/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1528302673&sr=8-10&keywords=peter+tasker), a book about an aging PI in Tokyo?.. Kazuo Mori is one of my all-time favorite PIs. I doubt anyone could forget Angel, either. Thanks much – I’m making quite the _GOT To Read/Listen To This!_ list. And thanks to whoever recommended Barbra Rosenblat… looks like she reads all the Nevada Barr “Anna Pigeon” (National Park Ranger) books, as well as the Kathy Reichs “Bones” books! ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/55 "2018-06-07T01:25:26Z")
Complex? Smart? Try _ **The Athenian Murders** _ by Jose Carlos Samoza. From the Amazon description: " In ancient Athens, one of the pupils of Plato’s Academy is found dead. His idealistic teacher Diagoras is convinced the pupil’s death is not as accidental as it appears, and asks the famous Heracles Pontor to investigate…" ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/56 "2018-06-07T13:24:10Z")
Ira Levin’s first book **A Kiss Before Dying**. It does not get any better than that one. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/57 "2018-11-24T04:54:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And the one I just read is [Gnomon](https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/what-it-might-feel-like-to-live-in-a-high-tech-surveillance-state/2018/01/10/3d684a2a-f54d-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.2c2dbbdcc972), by Nick Harkaway. In a dystopian (utopian?) future in which a nonsentient AI tracks everyone in England constantly, nearly eliminating crime, a citizen dies while undergoing a harmless mindreading interrogation. A detective is assigned to the case, starts to “read” the interrogation records, and then everything goes completely bonkers. > > It took me a long time to read this one–the structure is a little like **Cloud Atlas** –and by the end I’m still not 100% certain I understand what happened. But it’s sat with me, and the longer it sits with me the more thrilled I am by it. I’m about a third of the way through Gnomon, I still have no clear idea of what I’m reading, and it’s one of the most compelling books I’ve read in a long time. Bring a thesaarus, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/58 "2018-11-24T06:01:06Z")
Since this thread has been bumped: > [@snoe](#): > > 1. China Mieville’s _The City and the City_ is a police procedural set in … well, I hate to spoil it. It’s definitely experimental in terms of its setting, but Mieville is also a really strong genre writer (he mostly does fantasy and horror), so the plot is good, too. Is it…Mievilleian? I’ve read three of his novels if I’m remembering correctly and I think he’s a very good genre writer. But he’s also a misery-lover IME and all three endings have left me vaguely angry at Mieville. Doesn’t have to be a happy journey, but I’ve kinda grown to despise miserable endings. Even ambiguity is preferable. ---
**Author:** ![KatTP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@KatTP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KatTP)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/59 "2018-11-24T09:35:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Ben Aaronovitch’s _Rivers of London_ series. > > Colin Cotterill’s Dr. Siri Paiboun mysteries about a coroner in Laos. The first one is _The Coroner’s Lunch_. I’ll second Ben Aaronovitch. Though it’s genre would be considered urban fantasy it also focuses heavily on police procedure. Kimstu, have you read Lies Sleeping yet? I’d suggest Donna Leon’s, Inspector Brunetti series. Thoughtful, introspective, and a wonderful look into Venetian culture. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006/60 "2018-11-24T14:23:59Z")
Ed McBain’s 87th Precinct mysteries are excellent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-complex-and-or-smart-detective-fiction/815006.md?page=4)