# Looking for stories about misogynists **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121 "2008-08-24T19:00:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/21 "2008-08-26T15:00:06Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Bah! They’re much deeper than the movies, you know… [/QUOTE] Which part of “book clubs are inherently pretentious” did you not understand? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/22 "2008-08-26T15:14:43Z")
[QUOTE=madmonk28] I came in here to mention Garp, but I think anything by Irving qualifies. [/QUOTE] Yeah, Irving seems to have capital-I Issues with women. I don’t know if this would fit the bill, but Tiptree’s “The Screwfly Solution” is a pretty chilling look at misogyny and its possible outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![NoLAFIN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9bcb4/32.png) [@NoLAFIN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoLAFIN)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/23 "2008-08-26T15:55:04Z")
“A Handmaids Tale” seconded here. I read the book, and yes, I’d say it qualifies as misogynistic. It’s been a while since I read the book, but (IRC) it’s an alternate near-future novel. Women are mostly sterile so every high-society man has his high-society wife and a “handmaid”–a fertile young woman to breed with. Also, try Bret Easton Ellis’ “American Psycho” or “Less Than Zero”. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/24 "2008-08-26T17:00:15Z")
Patricia Highsmith’s got a short story collection called **Little Tales of Misogyny**. Are you seeking works with blatantly misogynist characters or from an author with questionable views on half the species (as reflected in their ostensibly sympathetic male characters and shallow, objectified or missing female characters)? ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/25 "2008-08-26T17:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=burundi] Yeah, Irving seems to have capital-I Issues with women. [/QUOTE] As a child he was sexually abused by an older woman. I dunno how much of an excuse that is, but it should be taken into account. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/26 "2008-08-27T00:00:55Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] I remember that quote from The Secret History. It’s not something originated by any character, but rather a Greek aphorism (the main characters are all Greek students); in context, the quote is part of an explanation of the odiousness of the murder victim. [/QUOTE] Excellent!Why not read about a dead misogynist?! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/27 "2008-08-27T00:43:46Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] ETA: In Garp, both Helen Holmes Garp and Ellen James come across as good women. [/QUOTE] Helen is nice, but has a stupid affair that betrays Garp. The message is that even the best of women can’t be trusted not to have other men.\* Besides, the “accident” with her lover\* makes her into – literally – a castrating bitch. But yes, Ellen James is clearly a good woman. She had has her tongue cut out. What exactly does _that_ say? \*One of the most clumsily contrived scenes this side of Mrs. E.D.E.N. Southworth. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/28 "2008-08-27T00:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] \*One of the most clumsily contrived scenes this side of Mrs. E.D.E.N. Southworth. [/QUOTE] Which is what, exactly? ETA: Never mind. Google would be my friend if only I’d let it. ---
**Author:** ![PharmBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@PharmBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PharmBoy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/29 "2008-08-27T00:51:33Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] **The World According to Garp**. Yes, I know. It’s supposed to be a feminist novel. But from the movie (which I understand is pretty close to the book), all the women are portrayed as being stupid, unreliable, and just plain nuts, and it helps to discredit the feminist movement by portraying them as man-hating shrews. The only actually sympathetic female used to be a male. It left a really bad taste in my mouth and the felling that John Irving _really_ hates women. [/QUOTE] I really, really HATED that book… ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/30 "2008-08-27T00:54:51Z")
[QUOTE=Harriet the Spry] There was some misogyny in _The Secret History_ by Donna Tartt. I still remember a quote used in that book, something like “Men have friends, women have family, and animals have their own kind.” Sometimes I have to admit I kind of “get” that quote, or find myself thinking it about someone. \*The Secret History \* is a good book club book, too. [/QUOTE] I don’t really remember any misogyny in Secret History–after all, wasn’t there a girl in their little club? Does Mary Gaitskill’s short story “Secretary” count? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/31 "2008-08-27T00:56:34Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] I don’t really remember any misogyny in Secret History–after all, wasn’t there a girl in their little club? Does Mary Gaitskill’s short story “Secretary” count? [/QUOTE] Sadist does not equal misogynist. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/32 "2008-08-27T01:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Sadist does not equal misogynist. [/QUOTE] I kind of got the sense that he was both. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/33 "2008-08-27T05:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Helen is nice, but has a stupid affair that betrays Garp. The message is that even the best of women can’t be trusted not to have other men.\* Besides, the “accident” with her lover\* makes her into – literally – a castrating bitch. [/QUOTE] That’s an interesting take. Remember, though, that: –Garp, not Ellen, causes the accident. –While Ellen is screwing her student, Garp is screwing the kids’ babysitter; no double standard in Irvingland. –As an act of exaggerated passive aggression, Garp pens a novel about a detective who specializes in rape cases after the accident. Ellen is not amused. –Ellen points out that she’s being punished inordinately for what is, in the context of their sort-of open marriage, a relatively trivial indiscretion. Hard to dispute. > [@](#): > > _But yes, Ellen James is clearly a good woman. She had has her tongue cut out. What exactly does that say?_ When she actually enters the Garp household, she’s still a teenager. The horrible incident that inspires the Ellen Jamesians is surprisingly recent. Finding refuge with a literary family, she expresses herself by writing. What exactly does _that_ say? Irving may have some screwy ideas about the feminist movement–which looked different and scarier to men in the 70s than it does today–but doesn’t pass muster as a misogynist. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/34 "2008-08-27T05:07:26Z")
I have never understood the characterizations of _Garp_ as misogynistic. I’ve read the book and seen the movie and I don’t think either of them are hateful towards women. Garp’s mother is a great character and he loves her very much. His wife, as has been mentioned, did cheat on him, but he cheated on _her._ All the characters in the book are flawed - you know, like real people. But I don’t get how the story is misogynistic. Similarly there is no indication that James Bond is a misogynist. Going through dozens of women doesn’t make a man a misogynist. Don’t hate the player. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/35 "2008-08-27T06:02:26Z")
Aside from the “post-1950s” stipulation, almost anything by \*\*James Thurber \*\*counts IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121/36 "2008-08-28T12:37:16Z")
I think of **Garp** as a novel about sexual mores and how they are affected by the women’s movement. Garp is sexually normal–loses his virginity to the town “bad girl,” marries the “good girl,” has a few affairs. Everyone around him is sexually whacko. When Garp cheats on Helen (when a man cheats on a woman), nothing happens. When Helen cheats on Garp (when a woman cheats on a man), she pays the ultimate price–the death of a child. Ellen James has her tongue cut out so she can’t talk about her rapists (no symbolism there, right? :rolleyes: ) The rapists are too stupid to know that a ten year old is old enough to write, which is how they get caught. Ellen James deserves to have her own biography written. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-stories-about-misogynists/461121.md?page=1)