# Looking for volunteers for SDMB APAS **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 16, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751 "2001-11-16T16:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/61 "2001-11-18T16:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Porcupine, šŸ˜ƒ > > Honestly, do you think that a happy birthday thread, or a 500th post thread, or a gee-heā€™s-a-swell-guy thread is the same as what weā€™re trying to do here? I donā€™t. From elsewhere in this thread: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > People are always expressing their feelings about posts anyway. This is just us expressing our own opinions. Well, you already made that point that no one is stoping you from expressing your feelings about a post/poster/thread. I just donā€™t understand why you feel itā€™s necessary to have a committee. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by erislover_ > Apart from that, I was thinking of it like an anti-pit. It seems absurd prima facie that we may take posters to the pit to abuse their posts but not create something which would serve to do a little "atta-boy"ing, or that such positive remarks would hurt more feelings than flames I always thought MPSIMS was the anti-pit. No, I donā€™t think the typical post part corresponds exactly to what you want to do. My point is that there is already a forum that is appropriate for you or anyone else who wants to to start a thread about a poster you think is particulary great. Therefore, I donā€™t really understand why a self appointed committe to decide the ā€œbestsā€ is necessary to give the people making an ā€œexcellentā€ contribution some recognition. If someone thinks they deserve recognition, they can do it now, without the committee. Itā€™s really no skin off my nose one way or another. Despite the fact that Iā€™ve posted in this thread several times, this is certainly not something that bothers me. I just donā€™t ā€œgetā€ it, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/62 "2001-11-18T17:17:45Z")
I guess the same question could be asked of many things. Why does the Motion Picture Academy have an Oscar? [ā€¦shrugā€¦] Iā€™d say itā€™s likely because they want to recognize excellence among their peers and put on a fun show for everyone. Clearly, a producer could just make a documentary of what he likes best, just as each of us could post our own individual opinions. And a lot of different producers could make a lot of different documentaries. But somehow, they just liked the idea of coming together for the purpose of rewarding excellence and seeing what the general consensus might be. Here, same same. It is remarkable to me that there actually do exist people (at least in the imaginations of some) who might take offense at this inoffensive project. And the notion that people would stop posting is a stretch that needed a cesarean to come out. Honestly, I donā€™t believe that weā€™ve heard from the many, many Dopers out there who do _not_ envy the achievements of others, who _do_ value the judgment of their peers, and who would certainly be less hurt by this effort than by a mean spirited Pit rant. Iā€™m afraid the project (at least as originally conceived) is likely doomed to die. It seems much easier to jump on a wagon running downhill than to step in front of it and try to stop it. I donā€™t visit a lot of threads in MPSIMS unless they really catch my eye. But I do hope that people donā€™t crash the threads that praise others and recognize excellence. It would be the epitome, in my view, of immaturity and weak character. All of life is choices. Decisions. Like the decision to support or oppose. Even the decision to bring this up at all. I made my decision because I thought that recognizing excellence was a good idea and could be fun. It honestly never occured to me that those who might be so recognized ought to forego any such honor for the benefit of those whose character is so weak that they share the sentiments of Genghis Kahn. Weird dynamic. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/63 "2001-11-18T17:22:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > **It honestly never occured to me that those who might be so recognized ought to forego any such honor for the benefit of those whose character is so weak that they share the sentiments of Genghis Kahn.** ā€œGodwinā€™s Law approaching off the port bow, Captain!ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/64 "2001-11-18T18:39:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Kat, thanks for your help, but when I click the link, I get a message that there is no such group. Ack, it appears that the ) was counted as part of the URL. It should be [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apas\_panel](http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apas_panel) ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/65 "2001-11-18T18:54:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Gee, I must have missed something, Lib. > > šŸ˜ƒ Pretty near everything, Iā€™d say. \*\* I stand corrected. I didnā€™t miss anything. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/66 "2001-11-18T19:07:33Z")
Hereā€™s the problem as I see it: **You** are the one selecting the members. Therefore, the panel can not be impartial. It will be composed of the posters that **you** like. The panel will no way represent the SDMB as a whole. It will represent the people who are favorites of one particular poster. This would bother me in any case, but it particularly bothers me in the case of you, Libertarian. In the wake of the whole Fred Phelps debacle, I can say that I have serious doubts about your judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/67 "2001-11-18T20:20:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > \*\*Hereā€™s the problem as I see it: > > **You** are the one selecting the members. > > Therefore, the panel can not be impartial. It will be composed of the posters that **you** like. > > The panel will no way represent the SDMB as a whole. It will represent the people who are favorites of one particular poster. > > This would bother me in any case, but it particularly bothers me in the case of you, Libertarian. In the wake of the whole Fred Phelps debacle, I can say that I have serious doubts about your judgement. \*\* Well, letā€™s try to think constructively as to how a system could be put into place. Maybe, instead, the goal of the panel members should simply be one of co-ordination and tallying. Perhaps we have a system where: 1. The panel members pick a group of ā€œsemi-finalistsā€ for each category. 2. In addition, after these ā€œsemi-finalistsā€ are announced, ALL SDMB posters may submit threads they think should have been included instead. 3. These submissions are examined, and the ā€œsemi-finalistsā€ list may be modified if it turns out good threads/whatever have been missed. 4. There is then an initial culling of the semi-finalists - done by who? The panelā€¦maybe a more general vote? 5. The field is reduced to finalists - 4 or so. These undergo a general voteā€¦ Hmmā€¦there are definitely some logistical difficulties here. Especially in that the SDMB does not have a polling ability. Iā€™m just brainstorming here, not pushing anything. Perhaps one thing that makes the issue a little more palatable is having many more panel members? After all, although I think I can be impartial in matters IRL that involve judging, I would be the last to say that I am in fact totally impartial - in that no one really can be. I donā€™t know. I support the idea still, which is why I volunteered, but I admit there seem to be more logistical issues and potential Causing of Bad Feelings than I had thought. **Lib** , I think we need to be very careful and open about how something like this would go about. Like I said - I do like the idea, but Iā€™m uncertain how to satisfy the concerns of **Eutychus** et al, and I think he and others do have legitimate concerns. Something like this could get real ugly real quick, and IIRC there were a lot of hard feelings over OpalCatā€™s awards (not that she did anything really wrong, but it just turned out that way). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/68 "2001-11-18T21:24:25Z")
Anthracite, youā€™re probably right. We probably would need to walk on glass in order to do this. I think itā€™s a great idea, which is why I brought it up. But Iā€™m not going to water it down to appease people who make the prodigal sonā€™s brother seem gracious by comparison. Iā€™m going to wait another day or two so people can come back from the weekend and maybe see this for the first time. For me, hope springs eternal that the level of maturity here rises above petty jealousies and hurt feelings over someone elseā€™s joy. [ā€¦shaking head in disbeliefā€¦] * * * Thanks, Kat. You did good work. Weā€™ll see in a couple of days where we go from here. * * * Green Bean, these are volunteers. I havenā€™t picked them; theyā€™ve decided to serve. The only one I rejected was one who said outright that he would not judge fairly. * * * > [@](#): > > ā€œGodwinā€™s Law approaching off the port bow, Captain!ā€ [In apparent reference to Genghis Kahnā€™s ā€œItā€™s not enough that I succeed; other men must fail.ā€] Euty, the sentiment that the success and achievement of others is somehow hurtful or sinister so disgusts me that I have nothing but contempt for those who hold it. The sheer irony of the person who moderates a forum famous for trampling on feelings like pearls under a sowā€™s hoof, holding the view that peoplesā€™ feelings might be hurt if their friends and peers are honored, is palpable. And the other stretch is more remarkable still: people might stop posting because they fear what the Academy might think! Well, you know, Edlyn and I havenā€™t stopped cooking. And I have stopped writing short stories just because _Sarahā€™s Gold_ didnā€™t make it into _Teemings_. You speak from atop an awfully high pedestal with an awfully thin base. Methinks you might tend to that beam in your own eye before you continue your swipes at this inoffensive project that is intended to do nothing but honor excellence. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/69 "2001-11-18T21:31:03Z")
Euty, I apologize. Not only did my last post make it sound like you were a Pit moderator, it made it sound like you yourself hold the very view that I find contemptible. Iā€™m sorry for that. I let my general disappointment get the best of me. Please consider this to be a retraction of my hasty and vulgar intimations. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/70 "2001-11-18T23:04:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*I have stopped writing short stories just because _Sarahā€™s Gold_ didnā€™t make it into _Teemings_. \*\* Thatā€™s a typo, right? Let me know; I donā€™t want Euty slashing his wrists with guilt feelings over the cessation of your literary work. I just mopped the floor. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2001, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/71 "2001-11-18T23:13:43Z")
Itā€™s going to begin in tears. First dibs on the franchise for barge polesā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/72 "2001-11-19T00:37:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Euty, I apologize. Not only did my last post make it sound like you were a Pit moderator, it made it sound like you yourself hold the very view that I find contemptible. Iā€™m sorry for that. I let my general disappointment get the best of me. Please consider this to be a retraction of my hasty and vulgar intimations. \*\* Maybe we should have a catagory for Most Apologies. **Lib,** you may already be a winner! šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/73 "2001-11-19T01:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Green Bean, these are volunteers. I havenā€™t picked them; theyā€™ve decided to serve. The only one I rejected was one who said outright that he would not judge fairly. > \*\* Oh, if that is the reason, let me set your mind at ease. My comment about music threads was a joke, based on the relatively well-known fact that I do not enjoy music. I do not listen to it, and have little appreciation for it beyond appreciating the skill necessary to produce it. If I were judging things, I would do my best to judge music threads in the same way as anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/74 "2001-11-19T04:14:48Z")
I hesitate to say this as the level of arrogance in assuming I or my posts would be considered is pretty high, butā€¦ If youā€™re going to do this, I do not want to be considered for any award. I also do not want my posts/threads considered (not that Iā€™m assuming that they would be, but just in case). There are a number of reasons, but they all boil down to ā€œIt would make me uncomfortable.ā€ First, If someone enjoys one of my posts, the _best_ reward I can get is for them to say so there, in the thread. Getting lots of responses in the thread is the ā€œrecognitionā€ I want. Getting an award after the fact (be it this, or threadspotting or whatever) is nice. Very nice, and flattering and all, but not enough to cancel out the next two points. Second, Iā€™m competitive enough that Iā€™d certainly try to skew my writing towards the tastes of the panel which may or may not be the tastes of me or the board in general, and given the level of discussion that these awards would certainly generate, that would only make it worse. And I donā€™t like feeling forced (and the only person forcing me would, of course, be me) to write to a particular audience. Third, I donā€™t like to work/play with someone looking over my shoulder and if this takes off, were I in the running, Iā€™d be wondering how Iā€™m being judged. It would feel _to me_ as though someone was standing behind me with a notebook, inspecting, judging and analyzing everything I say. While I can tolerate that feeling at work, I donā€™t enjoy it. At all. Even if itā€™s only the only person causing that feeling is me. It would lessen my enjoyment of the board considerably. So, no hard feelings I hope, and again, sorry for the hubris in assuming that I or my posts/threads might be considered, but I thought it best to get this said _before_ things start up. Thanks Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/75 "2001-11-19T04:24:10Z")
Unfortunately, **Lib** , your good idea is not being welcomed very well - by many people at all. I support your idea, and your goals, and I thought it would have been a really cool thing to do. But based on concern from receiving, how shall I say, ā€œinterestingā€ e-mails, I must respectfully withdraw from your panel. I wish you all the luck in the World, but when Iā€™ve got people flaming me in chat, at Dopefests, by mail, etc., it is clear that I would be a distraction to your process, and that I do not feel like it is a good idea for me to open myself up to even more sniping and whispering campaigns. Itā€™s a damn shame, really. I feel the same way you do about wanting to try to recognize the really excellent posters and intellects that we have here. Too bad that the idea seems not to be compatible with the situation. Una ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/76 "2001-11-19T04:36:41Z")
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Not even if they were posts/threads you made a long, long time ago? _peers hopefully at **Fenris** _ ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/77 "2001-11-19T05:32:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*Unfortunately, **Lib** , your good idea is not being welcomed very well - by many people at all. > > \*\* In that case, perhaps itā€™s not such a good idea, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/78 "2001-11-19T10:33:49Z")
Yeah, Slip. Itā€™s a know fact that throughout history, the value of ideas has been faithfully and accurately measured by majority consensus. * * * Anthracite, I understand. Thank you having offered your services. * * * Fenris, no problem, my friend. You know that I would honor your wishes, as would anyone here, I quite imagine. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/79 "2001-11-19T11:00:47Z")
Wow. People are taking this thread, this idea, this place a little too seriously IMHO. Good Idea Lib. Unfortunatly I think it is now doomed. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751/80 "2001-11-19T11:11:23Z")
Lib, This is a good idea. I really think it is a good idea. Once again, may I suggest that I think that this is a good idea. I would like to be a judge for this, I really would, but I know that people will take offense to a competition like this. It has been tried in the past, and caused a lot of trouble. Lib, I sincerely hope that this goes well. I am not shunning one clique for another. And I would happily submit my name for one of the judges, but only if you feel that this is a good and healthy thing to do, and that we have a fairt and accurate system for being on the panel and for judging the posts. Consider me a substitute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-volunteers-for-sdmb-apas/93751.md?page=5)