# Looking for wargame/tabletop miniature recommendations **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240 "2011-08-10T19:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/1 "2011-08-10T19:36:55Z")
I recently had the opportunity to play a (short, decidedly one-sided :)) game of Warhammer 40k with some friends, and had an absolute blast. As such, I was wondering what other tabletop miniature-type games people have enjoyed, that I should be looking into? The wargaming aspect appeals to me more than making and painting figures, so it would be a definite plus if this was something I could buy a rolebook for and mock up with cardboard cutouts/spare change, but I would love to hear about any tabletop-type game that dopers have really enjoyed. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/2 "2011-08-10T19:41:47Z")
Battletech, originally from FASA, was big in the 90’s. (Boardgame, not the coputer games.) > **[BattleTech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech)** > > BattleTech is a wargaming and military science fiction franchise launched by FASA Corporation in 1984, acquired by WizKids in 2001, which was in turn acquired by Topps in 2003; and published since 2007 by Catalyst Game Labs. The trademark is currently owned by Topps and, for videogames, Microsoft's Xbox Game Studios; Catalyst Game Studios licenses the franchise from Topps. > The series began with FASA's debut of the board game BattleTech (originally named Battledroids) by Jordan Weisman and L. Ros... Lots of opportunity to spend money on figures, and foam-terrain pieces, if you want to. 🙂 A group of players you “click” with is important, though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/3 "2011-08-10T23:17:58Z")
Paging **HypnoToad**. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/4 "2011-08-11T03:13:44Z")
WizKids’ various “click-base” games were very big a few years ago. Their initial hit was Mage Knight (fantasy), but they also had a comic-book version (HeroClix) and a BattleTech version (MechWarrior), plus a ship-combat game (Pirates of the Spanish Main) which didn’t use the click bases. After a couple of management / ownership changes, they’re still making HeroClix. The nice part about those games, from the OP’s viewpoint, is that the minis come pre-assembled and pre-painted. One difference from Warhammer is that each mini in the WizKids games represents an individual character (I’m not too familiar with Warhammer, but I’m not sure if a mini in WH represents a character or a unit). OTOH, compared to 6 or 8 years ago, it may be harder to find other people who play those games. When you go away from minis, towards chits / markers, there’s an entirely different segment of wargames, though most of those are based on historical battles, rather than fantasy or sci-fi battles (I’m not sure if the fantasy aspect of Warhammer 40K is a particular appeal to you). ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/5 "2011-08-11T06:08:19Z")
So far as the fantastical miniatures war games goes, I think it’s safe to say that Warhammer and Warhammer 40k pretty much dominates the industry and have been around for a long while. The advantages to Warhammer is that you’ll always be able to find a group in almost any city. In addition, the company has longevity and ten years from now you’ll probably still be able to find players if you’re still interested in playing. The biggest disadvantage is probably the cost. But for what you get I don’t find the game all that much more expensive than a lot of other games. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/6 "2011-08-11T08:58:08Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > (I’m not too familiar with Warhammer, but I’m not sure if a mini in WH represents a character or a unit). Kind of a blend. There are some models that represent named characters in the fluff, or even unique creatures in a swarm. Some larger creatures make up a whole ‘unit’ themselves. Most small creatures, however, get put together to make a unit. So you’ll have, say, 10 space marines together and they’re a unit, and as they get shot up, the unit loses strength. By the way, my answer to the OP, if you like 40K, is to play 40K but (if you have some extra cash) try to buy up some pre-painted figures on ebay. Especially in this economy, there will be some people who’d like to get rid of their plastic monsters and will need the money for rent/food much more. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/7 "2011-08-11T20:07:10Z")
My absolute favorite is Heavy Gear–it’s essentially Battletech without a lot of bullshit. Mecha function a lot more like battlesuit infantry (like, say, XV-8s for you WH40k fans) than like walking siege engines, and there’s a lot of room for a wide variety of team types that all use the same basic rules for attack/defense/maneuver. Rules are included for tanks, hover, vtol, and air support, and the minis are reasonably cheap to boot and can be had pre-painted in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/8 "2011-08-11T20:54:58Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > By the way, my answer to the OP, if you like 40K, is to play 40K but (if you have some extra cash) try to buy up some pre-painted figures on ebay. Especially in this economy, there will be some people who’d like to get rid of their plastic monsters and will need the money for rent/food much more. I used to frequent the eBay miniatures section (looking for painted D&D minis). I’d also see an awful lot of people selling large groups of either unpainted or partially-painted WH minis. It did seem like a fair number of people started to get into it, and then decided, “nah, that’s too much work.” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/9 "2011-08-12T02:16:15Z")
Yeah, it can be a lot of work and a lot of money to play 40K, and especially these days, there will generally be a few people at any given point who are selling a complete, or an almost complete army list that’s already been painted. It may not be painted as well as one might prefer, but it’ll be painted a lot of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/10 "2011-08-12T07:19:38Z")
I play Warhammer Fantasy and have a good time with it. I’m the opposite from the OP though, I like to paint and put together the miniatures. The actual playing is usually less fun, depending on seriously the game is taken. The cost of Warhammer is significant, but eBay is a fantastic resource and you can always find a good deal or two per week on any of the armies. Harder than it used to be with so many people using eBay for their business, but there are still bargains to be had. There is a lot of momentum for the newer games from Privateer Press called Warmachine and Hordes (i think?). The models are of exceptional quality and a better price than Games Workshop (Warhammer and 40k) stuff. Games Workshop makes it a habit to screw their customers on price once per year, at minimum (they’re known for a yearly increase, even if they release a product with cheaper base materials). I have no experience playing the Privateer Press games though, don’t know how good they are. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/11 "2011-08-12T07:21:10Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yeah, it can be a lot of work and a lot of money to play 40K, and especially these days, there will generally be a few people at any given point who are selling a complete, or an almost complete army list that’s already been painted. It may not be painted as well as one might prefer, but it’ll be painted a lot of the time. It’s really easy to strip the paint job without harming the miniature (as in, not using paint thinner), so this is one of the very best ways to collect an army on the cheap. Poorly painted minis fetch a much lower price than unpainted, unassembled, new models. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/12 "2011-08-12T07:26:25Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > It’s really easy to strip the paint job without harming the miniature (as in, not using paint thinner), so this is one of the very best ways to collect an army on the cheap. Poorly painted minis fetch a much lower price than unpainted, unassembled, new models. Yeep, I’ve gotten a bunch of mine that way: Simple Green, an old pot, an a toothbrush are awesome. But the OP doesn’t want to paint his own, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/13 "2011-08-12T13:00:47Z")
Simple Green! That’s what I was trying to remember was recommended to me for cleaning minis… _Goes to scribble down a note_ ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/14 "2011-08-13T01:40:10Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Simple Green! That’s what I was trying to remember was recommended to me for cleaning minis.. > > _Goes to scribble down a note_ Just make sure to get stuff in the big jug that isn’t as diluted. From what I understand, the stuff in spray bottles isn’t as strong or as good. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/15 "2011-08-13T03:49:19Z")
If you are looking for smaller unit count, there is Warmachine and Malifaux I don’t know much about them, other than some of the boardgame podcasts I listen too also discuss miniature games. Axis and Allies : War at Sea ships (and planes) are pre-painted (and the land ones also I assume) But finding what people around you play is important. If you are the only one who plays/has Wartech™, that will not be fun if you actually want to play (and not just collect pewter\* and paint) Brian who calls 40K Warhammer $40,000 \*or whatever they are made of these days ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/16 "2011-08-13T04:59:48Z")
If you want cardboard, there’s also something like [this.](http://www.boardgameinfo.com/gamedb/display-picture.phtml?picid=3763) You may even meet a 40k troupe who’ll let you play with cardboard that ‘counts as’ whatever. But I wouldn’t bet on it… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/17 "2011-08-13T05:07:50Z")
Games Workshop is a complete money sink and produces poor war games at best. But if you like miniatures, are looking for an introductory war game, and you don’t want to paint, you could do worse than Mage Knight or Heroclix. [Tide of Iron](http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/22825/tide-of-iron) is pretty good, not painted and some scenarios are a little unbalanced but at least the rules are tight. As **N9IWP** said, Axis and Allies makes collectable prepainted miniatures for both land and sea. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/18 "2011-08-13T05:22:25Z")
> [@Omi\_no\_Kami](#): > > but I would love to hear about any tabletop-type game that dopers have really enjoyed. Ok, I have to go to bed but I just cannot help myself. [Napoleon’s Triumph](http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18098/napoleons-triumph) - Simply the best war game I have ever played. Not a lot of rules, but its so innovative it’ll take some time to learn, but damn it is so worth it. You can easily grab a new copy for $30 and your war gaming bucks will never go farther. [No Retreat!](http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38877/no-retreat) - Operation Barbarossa in two hours or so. Dynamic, simple, elegant, cheap. [Twilight Struggle](http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-struggle) - The Cold War, the only way that subject could have been tackled. [Paths of Glory](http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/91/paths-of-glory) - WWI the only way it could have been done. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Bosstrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstrain)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/19 "2011-08-13T05:25:11Z")
I find it hard to believe no one’s even mentioned chess, It’s a wargame, comes in all sizes, and usually goes on a tabletop (also happens to look nice as decor). I realize what the OP is talking about, just had to give my .02, I don’t play chess much any more, mainly 'cause people I know, know I’ll win ever time…unless distracted, which is their new strategy 😉 (chess is fun like that) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240/20 "2011-08-13T05:54:43Z")
The last Warhammer/40K group that I played with would let you use cardboard tokens and whatnot for your armies as long as you appeared to be playtesting the hobby and not just a cheapskate (yeah, I know, but hell, I’ll play with cardboard tokens. I don’t give a crap.) I am willing to bet that a lot of this is encouraged by the game stores, which tend to A) be the only places with tables big enough for a larger-scale battle with cool terrain included and B) prohibit non-official minis on their gaming tables, for obvious profit motivated reasons (and I wouldn’t be surprised if Games Workshop made this part of the reseller agreement, too). > [@Bosstrain](#): > > I find it hard to believe no one’s even mentioned chess, It’s a wargame, comes in all sizes, and usually goes on a tabletop (also happens to look nice as decor). I realize what the OP is talking about, just had to give my .02, I don’t play chess much any more, mainly 'cause people I know, know I’ll win ever time…unless distracted, which is their new strategy 😉 (chess is fun like that) _sigh_ While I recognize there’s a spectrum of abstraction levels in terms of realism in wargames, and that the line between “wargame” and “regular board game” is fuzzy in some cases, chess is waaaay over on the “too abstract to be a ‘wargame’” side of it. Also, it’s not hard to believe at all, because no one actually calls chess a wargame in real life except for the kind of hipsters who have little leather-bound copies of The Art of War. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-wargame-tabletop-miniature-recommendations/592240.md?page=2)