# Looks like no Golden Globes or Oscars this year **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379 "2008-01-05T06:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/201 "2008-01-10T20:31:22Z")
I didn’t write a fanfic. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/202 "2008-01-10T20:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t write a fanfic. [/QUOTE] If I were you, I’d revise that statement, REALLY FREAKIN’ FAST. Otherwise, you’re going to be having some copyright problems, my friend. Beyond that, for the record, the pros never got a CHANCE to give you an opinion on the writing quality. Everyone assumed we’d be biased. It’s neither here nor there, now, anyway. I’m out of here – nothing new, only more of the same, and no way out of these arguments… Dio, I only hope that someday, people start treating you the way you and yours the way you treat them. Of course, considering your sense of entitlement, I’m sure you’ll never understand why the universe is being so bloody unfair to you and your most magnificent ego, huh. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/203 "2008-01-10T20:38:48Z")
[QUOTE=Elenfair] Hey! Dipstick! [/QUOTE] While I understand emotions have tended to run fairly hot in this thread, a mod has already stepped in to tell everyone to cool it with the personal insults. If you want to go to town on another poster, take it to the Pit. > [@](#): > > Of course, considering your sense of entitlement, I’m sure you’ll never understand why the universe is being so bloody unfair to you and your most magnificent ego, huh. This is also inappropriate. Focus on the argument all you want, but the discussion is not about individual posters. Again, the Pit is the better place for this type of comment. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/204 "2008-01-10T20:39:55Z")
I’m starting to think that **DtC** ’s irrational vitriol towards screenwriters is the result of being a frustrated writer himself. Just a guess. Either that or a screenwriter murdered his puppy once. And anyway, the quality of his screenplay completely notwithstanding, if he wrote it and it was produced for television or the Internet or movies or anywhere else, he’d deserve to be adequately compensated for it. How can you have participated in dozens of pages worth of discussion on this topic, complete with vitriolic screeds against the greedy and talentless writers, and not know what a Webisode is? I mean, seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/205 "2008-01-10T20:40:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The fans are all that matters. The professional writers were already predisposed to shoot me down, but even their critiques were mostly about formatting and length, not about the quality of the writing _per se_. I proved I could write crap for television. I won. [/QUOTE] It took you a month, maybe, to write that script? The implication you gave in the earlier threads was that writing a better script than a common 'Til Death episode is easy and then you took forever and a day to get it done. I don’t think your victory is as clear-cut as you think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/206 "2008-01-10T20:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=Elenfair] If I were you, I’d revise that statement, REALLY FREAKIN’ FAST. Otherwise, you’re going to be having some copyright problems, my friend. [/quote] I seriously doubt it, but I’ll take my chances. > [@](#): > > Beyond that, for the record, the pros never got a CHANCE to give you an opinion on the writing quality. Everyone assumed we’d be biased. Then how do explain all those pros, including you – giving their opinions in that thread? > [@](#): > > It’s neither here nor there, now, anyway. I’m out of here – nothing new, only more of the same, and no way out of these arguments… Dio, I only hope that someday, people start treating you the way you and yours the way you treat them. Of course, considering your sense of entitlement, I’m sure you’ll never understand why the universe is being so bloody unfair to you and your most magnificent ego, huh. What do you knowabout how I “treat” people, and what do I appear to feel “entitled” to? I’m expressing irritation at other people’s sense of entitlement (namely the WGA), but I han’t proposed that i’m entitled to a damn thing myself. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/207 "2008-01-10T20:43:24Z")
The issue of “promotional” webisodes is utterly ridiculous and it’s another aspect of the contract on which I wholly agree with the writers, same as fair payment and residuals. On the other hand, I’d still like to hear the [response to John Ridley.](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/web/la-oew-ridley8jan08,1,338290.story?ctrack=2&cset=true) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/208 "2008-01-10T20:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] It took you a month, maybe, to write that script? The implication you gave in the earlier threads was that writing a better script than a common 'Til Death episode is easy and then you took forever and a day to get it done. I don’t think your victory is as clear-cut as you think it is. [/QUOTE] as I explained many times in that thread, it wasn’t my job, I wasn’t getting paid, I actually have a job and other duties in my life and I was going to take my own sweet time. I also had to do my own research, unlike the real writers for that show. Pay me and give me consultants and I’ll speed things up. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/209 "2008-01-10T20:54:13Z")
So pissing a better script in the snow means if you give me a check and a bunch of flunkies I can write a better script? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/210 "2008-01-10T20:54:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The professional writers were already predisposed to shoot me down, but even their critiques were mostly about formatting and length, not about the quality of the writing _per se_. [/QUOTE] That’s actually a mischaracterization of the critique I posted. In addition to the minor issues, I pointed out what I thought were four significant problems: 1. The wordiness of the dialog. Note that this is not the same as “length”. Fixing wordy dialog is not merely a matter of cutting but usually involves a substantial rewrite. 2. The unnaturalness of some of the diction. Specifically I said: “It’s written as though its going to be read off the page, not spoken aloud. Some of the dialog is awkward or doesn’t align with the emotional tone that it will need to be delivered in.” 3. The lack of multiple levels of emotional play. 4. Unsteady characterizations with a lack of clear motivation. You’re free to decide that I’m full of shit and that none of these criticisms are valid. However they do go well beyond “formatting and length”. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/211 "2008-01-10T20:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=Elenfair] I’m out of here – nothing new, only more of the same, and no way out of these arguments… [/QUOTE] Listen, it’s your call whether you want to bail on this thread, but I think it would be very interesting to hear your takes on some of these issues. Letting this thread devolve into another digression on the nature of self-delusion would be a waste. I would be _extremely_ interested in your opinion on the Ridley piece linked by **AzTeach** for one. I lean pretty strongly pro-writer, but his article gave me pause. How would you respond to it - particularly, to his points about the combination of a closed shop and the squelching of dissent? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/212 "2008-01-10T21:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] The issue of “promotional” webisodes is utterly ridiculous and it’s another aspect of the contract on which I wholly agree with the writers, same as fair payment and residuals. On the other hand, I’d still like to hear the [response to John Ridley.](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/web/la-oew-ridley8jan08,1,338290.story?ctrack=2&cset=true) [/QUOTE] Thank you, AzT. Doing DtC a favor and posting a few extracts ended up unleashing his whirlwind (again), hopelessly hijacking the thread. I hope Elenfair does come back… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/213 "2008-01-10T21:54:36Z")
I’ve gotten way over the top with some of my statements, too hyperbolic, too dismissive, too sweeping…a whole bunch of stuff. I apologize. I have a tendency to always want to battle my way out of minor disagreements rather than ever admit I’m wrong. When my back is against the wall, I dig a tunnel through the wall. It’s a personality flaw. I’m sorry. I do respect anyone who can make a living at writing. I know that not _all_ television is crap, and obviously I know that without writers there is no entertainment industry. Give 'em what they want. I’m undoubtedly wrong on the conflict itself. I was recting against certain attitudes I perceived in the WGA but even if they’ve been sanctimonious that doesn’t make them wrong. Mea Culpa. I’ve come close to being a jerk. I’m not really as much of a dickwad as it appears sometimes. Apologies especialy to **Elenfair** who i’ve never had a problem with before this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/214 "2008-01-10T22:11:32Z")
Thanks, Dtc. This always seemed to strime me as a bit atypical of you and I, for one, appreciate your apology. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/215 "2008-01-10T22:25:01Z")
I’m glad to hear you say that **Diogenes**. FWIW, I also had been feeling like your extreme position on the strike seemed to be at odds with the normal thoughtful tenor of your postings. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/216 "2008-01-10T23:33:18Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] That’s what you’re asking of the writers. The primary leverage any employee has is the threat that they’ll simply walk out the door. But you seem to think the writers are in the wrong for doing so. [/quote] No, walking out the door implies quitting. As in, you leave, they try to hire someone else for the salary they were willing to pay, you try to find someplace else willing to pay the salary you want. Refusing to work AND preventing anyone else from doing the work instead until your demands are met is not “walking out the door.” I mean walking out the door and walking away, not walking out the door and then blocking it. > [@](#): > > Suppose you think your boss is underpaying you. I ask for more money. If he refuses, I do a cost-benefit analysis as to the value of the job to me in time, money, self-respect, and benefits, and I decide if I will stay for the money she’s willing to pay, or leave to seek the money I think I deserve. > [@](#): > > But you also know that if you walk the project you’re working on will be cancelled and your two assistants will lose their jobs. How many years would you be willing to suck it down for their sake? I don’t know. But when I left, I would leave, I wouldn’t insist on more money for myself while putting them out of work anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Aioua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Aioua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aioua)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/217 "2008-01-11T01:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] No, walking out the door implies quitting. As in, you leave, they try to hire someone else for the salary they were willing to pay, you try to find someplace else willing to pay the salary you want. Refusing to work AND preventing anyone else from doing the work instead until your demands are met is not “walking out the door.” I mean walking out the door and walking away, not walking out the door and then blocking it. [/quote] Who are they stopping from working? No one’s stopping the networks from hiring scabs. > [@](#): > > I ask for more money. If he refuses, I do a cost-benefit analysis as to the value of the job to me in time, money, self-respect, and benefits, and I decide if I will stay for the money she’s willing to pay, or leave to seek the money I think I deserve. > … So when you’re employed by the only game in town, what do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/218 "2008-01-11T04:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=Aioua] Who are they stopping from working? No one’s stopping the networks from hiring scabs. [/quote] I can’t tell if you’re being disingenuous or not. THEY prevent other people from working for the producers. They make everyone who wants to work in that field belong to the union – membership is compulsory. And any union member who crosses picket lines may be reported and subject to unspecified reprecussions: > [@](#): > > The WGA West, which has a Strike Rules Compliance Committee, has a phone number for members to report other members. > > The WGA said the 12-person committee’s mission is “to discourage violations of the Guild’s strike rules by investigating allegations that writers are undermining our strike efforts by engaging in strike-breaking activities or scab writing and, in appropriate instances, by recommending action against such writers. By doing so, we hope first and foremost to discourage such writers from breaking the strike rules.” The only choice for dissenting union members is to go “fi-core” and even that may lead to blacklisting. This is what a striking guild member said about soap opera writers who went “fi-core”: “[T]hey’ve got people scabbing in there. We don’t know who. They shield their identity to protect them from repercussions from the guild.” [Cite.](http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/business/la-et-soapstrike31dec31,1,5440983,full.story) Any non-union member crossing the picket lines risks never being allowed to join the union. So long as the union contracts require the producers to hire union writers only, that means, literally, “you’ll never work in this town again.” I’m making no comment on the justice of these reprecussions, but I don’t think the seriousness of them is in any doubt. > [@](#): > > So when you’re employed by the only game in town, what do you do? I already answered this: I decide if I’m going to stay and if I feel I can’t or shouldn’t, I leave. There are other jobs and there are other towns. That’s life for the vast majority of people who don’t belong to unions. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/219 "2008-01-11T09:07:25Z")
[QUOTE=Elenfair] There is currently talk of an agreement with United Artists (a division of MGM owned by Tom Cruise) in the process of being finalized. It’s possible that this will start happening more and more, especially with independent companies. Personally, I’m very curious to see what will happen with the Maus Haus (Disney) in the upcoming weeks. [/QUOTE] It occurs to me that a network-by-network system of contracts would greatly strengthen the writers position, at least on popular shows. With this industry-wide strike, I’m not worried about the established shows that I like getting replaced. But if it’s a case-by-case basis and the writers on a given show strike, viewers will leave for other shows, a scary proposition for the network. It’s an interesting situation. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379/220 "2008-01-11T14:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] \*\*I’ve gotten too carried away. I’ve gotten way over the top with some of my statements, too hyperbolic, too dismissive, too sweeping…a whole bunch of stuff. I apologize. I have a tendency to always want to battle my way out of minor disagreements rather than ever admit I’m wrong. When my back is against the wall, I dig a tunnel through the wall. It’s a personality flaw. I’m sorry. I do respect anyone who can make a living at writing. I know that not _all_ television is crap, and obviously I know that without writers there is no entertainment industry. Give 'em what they want. I’m undoubtedly wrong on the conflict itself. I was recting against certain attitudes I perceived in the WGA but even if they’ve been sanctimonious that doesn’t make them wrong. Mea Culpa. I’ve come close to being a jerk. I’m not really as much of a dickwad as it appears sometimes. Apologies especialy to **Elenfair** who i’ve never had a problem with before this whole thing.\*\* [/QUOTE] Good on ya Dio. Thank you for this post. Knowing that some people skim threads or skip around, it could be missed by some. I hope everyone reads it. I don’t even know you but I’m very proud of you for writing it. I even bolded it in an effort to make sure people see it. In other news, I just read this. I’ll bet more and more production companies will start making individual deals. [Weinsteins make a deal with striking writers](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/11/2136390.htm?section=entertainment) (Reuters story) > [@](#): > > The Weinstein Company - the film and TV company run by media moguls Harvey and Bob Weinstein - has reached an agreement that will allow striking Hollywood writers to return to work for the company. > > … > Earlier this week Tom Cruise’s film company, United Artists, also reached an agreement with the WGA members that would allow writers to work for that company. > > Mr Frankel says the Weinstein agreement is similar to the United Artists deal. I just hope that a deal is made for the Oscars (though not at the expense of the writers). Much to my surprise and shock, two of my favorite films of the year by two (well, three) of my favorite directors are pretty much locks for Best Picture, Best Director and Best Screenplay nominations (just to mention a few), **No Country For Old Men** by the Coen Brothers (Joel and Ethan), and (especially) **There Will Be Blood** by Paul Thomas Anderson, with the Coens and their film the frontrunner to win. That happens so rarely (top favorites of mine being top favorites to be nominated and win) that I’m stunned with joy at how this awards season is shaping up. Too bad this couldn’t have been a normal year when I liked a lot of nominated movies but wasn’t passionate about anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-no-golden-globes-or-oscars-this-year/432379.md?page=12)