# Looks like South African runner may well be a hermaphrodite - Should she compete as a woman? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 10, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596 "2009-09-10T19:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/81 "2009-09-16T02:35:06Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If you were having regular doctor’s appointments, would this be considered a problem? Like, I’d assume if your body fat was so low you couldn’t menstruate that you’d probably be advised to cut down on the exercise or something. Though I guess people don’t always listen to medical advise. Right. Like the hard-core runners I knew in College, a couple of which had only had periods for a year or two by the time they were in their 20’s, because their body fat level was around 5% - possibly less at times; I don’t remember the exact figures but it was low. And when one was told by her doctor it was unhealthy, she did what many competitive athletes do - she doctor-shopped until she found one who was cool with it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/82 "2009-09-16T02:41:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Like, I’d assume if your body fat was so low you couldn’t menstruate that you’d probably be advised to cut down on the exercise or something. No, actually that’s pretty much required to compete at certain levels. Low body fat for certain types of athletes, especially runners, is SOP. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/83 "2009-09-16T02:52:07Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > No, actually that’s pretty much required to compete at certain levels. Low body fat for certain types of athletes, especially runners, is SOP. But it’s really bad for your body if you’re a woman and can lead to lots of problems, like bone issues. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/84 "2009-09-16T03:25:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The reason that the womens’ events are confined to women is that women are, on the whole, not as fast or strong as men at a comparable level of competition(snip) It’s true there are biological reasons for these differences (men are generally stronger and faster). But I do want to add that today’s elite women marathoners are beating winning times of earlier male marathon champions. Since fewer women are exposed to - or encouraged to be involved in - competitive sports, there is still usually a smaller pool of candidates to draw from to begin with. Also wanted to mention that “transgender” and “intersex” are usually different situations. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/85 "2009-09-16T04:19:36Z")
> [@JillGat](#): > > But I do want to add that today’s elite women marathoners are beating winning times of earlier male marathon champions. Worth noting that “earlier” means times from over half a century ago. Given the improvements in training, equipment and drugs in the last 50 years I’m not sure how much this tells us. I assume you aren’t disputing that the greater strength and more optimal body shape of men gives them an insurmountable advantage over women, all other factors being equal? ---
**Author:** ![Slanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Slanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slanky)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/86 "2009-09-16T04:48:36Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > It’s not uncommon for elite woman athletes to rarely or never experience menstruation due to extremely low body fat. It would be a little strange to have literally _never_ had it, but not impossible, given her young age and presumably extreme training regimen. I believe it is more common for elite woman athletes to lose their period rather than never having it all. Few woman athletes are going to have a low enough body fat percentage at such a young age to never experience menarche. Of course there are exceptions, but either way the cause of amenorrhea needs to be determined. This determination would most certainly include an examination of the vagina, cervix, uterus, and ovaries by at least palpation and likely by ultrasound. Assuming her lack of menarche to be an exercise induced amenorrhea without further examination would verge on malpractice. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/87 "2009-09-16T11:09:55Z")
> [@Slanky](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > There are, in fact, XX males - they have two X chromosomes but a fully male appearance, including functioning penis and male muscle development. > > I don’t doubt you, but can you say what syndrome you are talking about? The closest I can think of is XX male syndrome, but that produces a patient that has Kleinfelter like characteristics including gynecomastia, infertility, and female height and weight. Furthermore, all these patients have the SRY gene which is nearly equivalent to having the Y chromosome. Uh… yes, that is what I am talking about. But just because someone has two X chromosomes, one of which has an SRY gene appended, doesn’t mean you’re going to spot him as an anomaly when he’s walking down the street - or even down the beach in a speedo. What, after all, is “female height”? Such a person from a family where the women are 5’10" who is _also_ 5’10" is going to be _average male height_ - and I’ve met lots of women who are that tall, and lots of men who are shorter than that. Infertility is not externally visible (although the condition is found at times when a couple comes in after failing to conceive, discovered as part of the medical work up looking at causes of infertility). The gynecomastia is going to vary enormously from person to person, from extremely obvious to nearly non-existent. I’d link to pictures that would illustrate this but I’m sure that would violate a NSFW policy here. Most pictures I’ve seen you won’t guess just by looking that there’s something amiss. Sure, a little on the short side, maybe less public hair than average, their penis may be a bit below average in size but it’s all still within normal male range, or very close to it, most of the time and their genitals work just like any other man’s. If they have athletic interests so they’re muscles are encouraged to develop that may entirely mask their tilt towards the feminine, which is pretty slim to begin with. There are, after all, a lot of normal XY males who are short, or have gynecomastia, or are infertile. Thing is, typically when people illustrate these sorts of discussions, or an article about the matter, they choose pictures that _emphasize_ the differences these people have, or they pick extreme cases. These people are taken out of the context of normal, daily life. Likewise, men with Klinefelter’s aren’t that easy to spot on the street either. “Tends to be tall” does not mean they’re all 7 feet tall - someone with the condition from a short family may well be of “only” average male height. Again, the gynecomastia varies enormously from person to person. Then tend to be slender but exercise will bulk them up somewhat. Their beard growth is sparse to non-existent, but a lot of men are clean shaven these days. Walking down the street they don’t really stand out from the crowd. That’s that thing with these intersex conditions - they’re a LOT more common than people realize, in part because these people mostly look _normal_ in day to day life, and in many instances the people themselves aren’t aware of their unusual situation until, for example, they go to a doctor for infertility problems. Or perhaps excessive hair growth in women or breast devlopment in men but those issues can be dealt with these days to the point that no one outside of the person, his/her doctor, and the few people they choose to share that information with will ever know. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596/88 "2009-09-16T11:20:14Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > It’s not uncommon for elite woman athletes to rarely or never experience menstruation due to extremely low body fat. It would be a little strange to have literally _never_ had it, but not impossible, given her young age and presumably extreme training regimen. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If you were having regular doctor’s appointments, would this be considered a problem? Like, I’d assume if your body fat was so low you couldn’t menstruate that you’d probably be advised to cut down on the exercise or something. Though I guess people don’t always listen to medical advise. It is considered normal for a young woman to not start menstruating until 16. It only seem odd because in a lot of western/industrialized countries we have kids (there’s no other word for them) start menstruating at 10 or 12, so 16 seems unusual to us, but it used to be much more common. So, provided there aren’t any other anomalies, doctors tend not to get concerned if you have a non-menstruating 15 or 16 year old girl. Ms. Semaya is only 18 - clearly if she wasn’t menstruating that’s old enough to warrant in investigation of some sort, but she’s not much past that age where it gets to be a concerned and it may not have been a priority with her or her family when she’s getting all sorts of attention for being an elite athlete. I have a friend whose daughter is an elite gymnast who hit 16 without starting her period. They took her in to the doctor, she got a thorough examination, and in her case they concluded it was her low body weight due to her athletics delaying her puberty. I think she started her cycles at 17, which is a bit late but in her case the cause was determined to be her activity level and not something wrong with her body. So a young, elite woman athlete might not start her period until 17 or 18 without needing to be intersex or have something wrong. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But it’s really bad for your body if you’re a woman and can lead to lots of problems, like bone issues. It can, and with my friend’s daughter that was a concern. In that case, after the exams, the doctors thought it wasn’t causing her a problem and her bone development and density were normal for her age, but yes, it can be a problem. The docs thought it was her low body fat, as opposed to a low body weight, that was delaying things. The kid isn’t underweight, she’s just all muscle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-south-african-runner-may-well-be-a-hermaphrodite-should-she-compete-as-a-woman/509596.md?page=4)