# Looks like the Department of Justice is turning its anti-trust eye towards the BCS
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [May 5, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814 "2011-05-05T05:16:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/1 "2011-05-05T05:16:09Z")
[http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/05/04/bcs-justice-department.ap/index.html?sct=hp\_t2\_a15&eref=sihp](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/05/04/bcs-justice-department.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a15&eref=sihp)
The US DOJ has issued a letter to the NCAA asking how the BCS system… hell, just let me quote the article:
> [@](#):
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> In a letter this week, the department’s antitrust chief, Christine Varney, asked NCAA President Mark Emmert why a playoff system isn’t used in football, unlike in other sports; what steps the NCAA has taken to create one; and whether Emmert thinks there are aspects of the BCS system that don’t serve the interest of fans, schools and players.
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> “Your views would be relevant in helping us to determine the best course of action with regard to the BCS,” she wrote.
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> “Serious questions continue to arise suggesting the current Bowl Championship Series system may not be conducted consistent with the competition principles expressed in the federal antitrust laws,” Varney said.
Of course, Bill Hancock, the head of the BCS responded with the “what are they bothering me for, don’t they have better things to do?” play:
> [@](#):
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> “Goodness gracious, with all that’s going on in the world right now and with national and state budgets being what they are, it seems like a waste of taxpayers’ money to have the government looking into how college football games are played,” he said.
So, questions:
1. Is the BCS a serious enough “entity” (for want of a better word) to warrant US DOJ attention?
2. Any lawyer types want to weigh in on whether the current BCS system is, in fact, a violation of US anti-trust laws?
3. Any predictions on how this will turn out?
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/2 "2011-05-06T13:46:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> 1. Is the BCS a serious enough “entity” (for want of a better word) to warrant US DOJ attention?
They generate and distribute hundreds of millions of dollars to non-profit educational institutions. Hancock can talk about how they’re just “widdle old football games” but when that kind of scratch is being tossed around, the government has a right to ensure nothing hinky is going on.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/3 "2011-05-06T14:00:26Z")
I thought it was stupid when Congress waded into the steroids-in-baseball thing, and I think this is stupid, too.
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### Author:  [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/4 "2011-05-06T14:12:11Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
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> They generate and distribute hundreds of millions of dollars to non-profit educational institutions. Hancock can talk about how they’re just “widdle old football games” but when that kind of scratch is being tossed around, the government has a right to ensure nothing hinky is going on.
It seems like an unpopular opinion, but I actually agree with this. Most football fans that I’ve heard from want the government to just stay out of sports. But you have to realize that sports, including NCAA sports, are businesses. We don’t let other forms of business operate however they want.
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### Author:  [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/5 "2011-05-06T15:01:11Z")
Most sports fans have a hard time admitting that sports are a business. College sports fans moreso.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/6 "2011-05-06T15:31:26Z")
Looks like it’s driven by butt hurt whining from Orrin Hatch, and Utah’s Attorney General. The real goal seems to be to force a playoff system.
Really don’t think it’s an appropriate use of federal funds. Fuck Utah. Let them play in a real conference if they want to be taken seriously.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/7 "2011-05-06T15:47:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> I thought it was stupid when Congress waded into the steroids-in-baseball thing, and I think this is stupid, too.
Congress waded into [Major League Baseball in 1903](http://www.slate.com/id/2068290/). The MLB antitrust exemption was an act of Congress. Therefore, Congress has in implicit seat at every table where decisions about competitiveness within the League is under consideration.
Also, Congress waded into the issue of anabolic steroids with the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990, where these synthetic hormones were put into Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act.
So, the fact that an organization which has a Congressionally-mandated antitrust exemption, unique in all of U.S. professional and amateur sports, appeared to be systematically and organizationally violating a controlled substances law in an organized and deliberate fashion, definitely makes it a topic Congress **had** to wade into. Not doing so would have been a particularly egregious lack of care and diligence.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/8 "2011-05-06T15:53:22Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
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> Congress waded into [Major League Baseball in 1903](http://www.slate.com/id/2068290/). The MLB antitrust exemption was an act of Congress. Therefore, Congress has in implicit seat at every table where decisions about competitiveness within the League is under consideration.
No. Did you read your own cite? Baseball’s antitrust exemption was judicially created, in an opinion written by Oliver Wendell Holmes that employs some…questionable…reasoning.
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### Author:  [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/9 "2011-05-06T16:09:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
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> Looks like it’s driven by butt hurt whining from Orrin Hatch, and Utah’s Attorney General. The real goal seems to be to force a playoff system.
>
> Really don’t think it’s an appropriate use of federal funds. Fuck Utah. Let them play in a real conference if they want to be taken seriously.
I’m not one to want the govt involved, but your comment sounds like you think the BCS is a good system.
I’ve always thought an 8 team playoff would be a great compromise. The goal is to make sure that the top two teams are somewhere in that top 8, the further you get from #1 the less likely you deserve to be in the playoffs. If your team is ranked #9 I don’t have a problem excluding you (including if it’s my team).
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/10 "2011-05-06T16:12:44Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#):
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> I’m not one to want the govt involved, but your comment sounds like you think the BCS is a good system.
I’d prefer a playoff system, but I object to federal intervention in this area. Really think this is happening because Orrin Hatch is butt hurt about Utah not getting a shot at the title.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/11 "2011-05-06T16:27:57Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
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> Really think this is happening because Orrin Hatch is butt hurt about Utah not getting a shot at the title.
You’re probably right, but if Utah misses out on an extremely lucrative title shot because they’re not in the “right” conference, even when they played well, one could argue that there is not real competition to get in the title game. Millions of dollars are riding on this opportunity, it can’t be restricted to the good ol boys in the conferences you like.
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### Author:  [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/12 "2011-05-06T18:02:58Z")
Isn’t Utah joining the Pac10 (Pac12?)? Orrin has no need to worry anymore. The Utes just need to win that conference and, presto! they get a BCS game.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/13 "2011-05-06T18:31:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> No. Did you read your own cite? Baseball’s antitrust exemption was judicially created, in an opinion written by Oliver Wendell Holmes that employs some…questionable…reasoning.
Not lately, so obviously I misremembered. However, leaving aside trivial issues of misattribution, the exemption persists by Congressional sufferance:
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> “We think that if there are evils in this field which now warrant application of it to the antitrust laws, it should be **by legislation**.”
–_Toolson v. New York Yankees, 1953_
So… your point is completely accurate, but utterly irrelevant. Congress has, according to the Supreme Court, every legal right to hover concernedly over every major aspect of Major League baseball that affects its environment of business competition.
Yeah. Disagree with the Holmes if you want. But it’s still the law of the land.
And back on-topic? The BCS sucks bad. But I’m not crazy about Congress changing this kind of stuff, even if it’s the only way it would ever happen. Intervention (as seen in MLB) may be the law of the land in some ways, and have ample precedent, but I’m not saying that’s a good thing. (I think Holmes was wrong, too. Not that it matters. It is what it is.)
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### Author:  [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/14 "2011-05-07T06:38:42Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#):
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> Isn’t Utah joining the Pac10 (Pac12?)? Orrin has no need to worry anymore. The Utes just need to win that conference and, presto! they get a BCS game.
Yes. However now **BYU** is [playing as an independent](http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/13854554/byu-football-to-go-independent-other-sports-to-wcc) and will probably be facing similar issues.
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### Author:  [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/15 "2011-05-07T06:50:54Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> I thought it was stupid when Congress waded into the steroids-in-baseball thing, and I think this is stupid, too.
Thank the death of OBL for this.
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### Author:  [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/16 "2011-05-07T15:08:09Z")
the NCAA is corrupt but the BCS is a small part of the problem.
If the DOJ wants to investigate anything, why not the skyrocketing cost of college tuition, books and housing? People scream and the DOJ investigates every time the price of oil goes up. But the cost of college is always going up by more than inflation, it’s importance in getting a good job increases, and they continually get a free pass???
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### Author:  [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/17 "2011-05-08T19:38:31Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#):
>
> If the DOJ wants to investigate anything, why not the skyrocketing cost of college tuition, books and housing? People scream and the DOJ investigates every time the price of oil goes up. But the cost of college is always going up by more than inflation, it’s importance in getting a good job increases, and they continually get a free pass???
Not for long, if Peter Thiel (founder of PayPal) keeps his streak of predicting industry bubble bursting going.
> **[Peter Thiel: We're in a Bubble and It's Not the Internet. It's Higher...](https://techcrunch.com/2011/04/10/peter-thiel-were-in-a-bubble-and-its-not-the-internet-its-higher-education/)**
>
> Fair warning: This article will piss off a lot of you. I can say that with confidence because it's about Peter Thiel. And Thiel - the PayPal co-founder, hedge fund manager and venture capitalist - not only has a special talent for making money, he...
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### Author:  [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)
#### Post date: [May 9, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/18 "2011-05-09T21:37:54Z")
Did anyone else take a close look at the last attempt to legislate a college football playoff (the “Barton bill”)? Going by a strict reading of the bill (a “single-elimination playoff” for which all FBS teams are “equally eligible”), the BCS Championship Game is a “valid” playoff (unless somebody can show that any of the computer ranking systems gives extra weight to being in a conference, and since five of the six systems are proprietary, and the one public one does not use conferences at all, that’s not very likely).
The main problem isn’t the lack of a playoff; it’s the fact that the “automatic qualifying” conferences get most of the money, and the claim that since they generate most of the money in the first place, they’re entitled to it, even if, say, a Big East champion team gets a BCS bowl berth (and the millions of dollars that go with it) at the expense of a much higher ranked Mountain West or WAC team. (My guess as to why they don’t just leave the NCAA and form their own association is, they don’t want to give up the men’s basketball money.)
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### Author:  [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-the-department-of-justice-is-turning-its-anti-trust-eye-towards-the-bcs/580814/19 "2011-05-10T13:12:48Z")
Seriously? Cable companies, Microsoft, Google, oil companies, and cell phone companies are all perfect little competitors in completely open markets and don’t use any kind of quasi-monopoly power to get money from consumers, but the frikkin NCAA post-season for one sport is a financial scandal that impacts every citizen’s pocketbook enough to be worth investigating?
Seriously?