# Looks like umkay is back, so we may as well get this thread started... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570 "2013-07-15T16:39:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/361 "2013-07-16T16:19:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I guess what I’m trying to take away here, is whether I was too gullible, or if everyone else was too cynical, but just happened to be right this time. > > Sure, but young disabled people exist, and devotees exist - and are a genuine problem that people ask about. > > I don’t see any striking similarities in either the real-life names (between the troll and **Ambivalid** or the usernames (of the troll and the other troll). jaymac1 vs umkay or Jaymie McInnery vs Jamie McGarry. Those last two are as different as John Smith and John Brown. I think it was because the names are similar enough to a poster who also just happens to be disabled. > [@](#): > > Perhaps that’s where I’m missing out. I never really saw any of the umkay stuff - aware of it as an item of board history, but don’t recall being involved or many of the exact details. > > If, hypothetically, a genuinely disabled person came here and asked for advice about a genuine concern they had about devotees, would that person just be written off as a troll now? I doubt it. Because a real disabled person probably wouldn’t lead off that way. I bet there are several here who’ve never asked such things at all, let alone all in conjunction together. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/362 "2013-07-16T16:19:59Z")
“If, hypothetically, a genuinely disabled person came here and asked for advice about a genuine concern they had about devotees, would that person just be written off as a troll now?” But **why** would they ask **us**? What the bleep would would we bring to the conversation to add value? ( **Ambivalid** excepted, of course, and any other Dopers with relevent first-hand experience) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/363 "2013-07-16T16:21:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They were suspicious because **jaymac1** showed up with a story and a persona that was very, very similar to **umkay** ’s. I guess that’s bad luck for **jaymac1** , who was not nearly as good a faker. I don’t think **umkay** ever disclosed her supposed real name or home town. Yeah, I did think the volunteering of supposedly personal information was weird. > [@](#): > > The general thing to do is to be more skeptical (not necessarily hostile) of a story the more unusual it is. I agree, but as I said earlier (in this or one of the other related threads), I didn’t see a lot of skepticism. I saw suspicion and cynicism - which are not the same thing. Skepticism is about drawing conclusions well supported by evidence - that seems nearly the _opposite_ of what happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/364 "2013-07-16T16:23:03Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > “If, hypothetically, a genuinely disabled person came here and asked for advice about a genuine concern they had about devotees, would that person just be written off as a troll now?” > > But **why** would they ask **us**? What the bleep would would we bring to the conversation to add value? ( **Ambivalid** excepted, of course, and any other Dopers with relevent first-hand experience) Why _wouldn’t_ they ask us? Even if we have nothing to offer, that doesn’t mean someone won’t (perhaps mistakenly) ask the question. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/365 "2013-07-16T16:28:44Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeah, I did think the volunteering of supposedly personal information was weird. > > I agree, but as I said earlier (in this or one of the other related threads), I didn’t see a lot of skepticism. I saw suspicion and cynicism - which are not the same thing. > > Skepticism is about drawing conclusions well supported by evidence - that seems nearly the _opposite_ of what happened here. No, that’s philosophical skepticism. Being skeptical is just not being prone to buy into bullshit. Ever hear the saying “Fool men once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me?”. If you treat each incident as independent, you’ll be constantly fooled. It seems to me like you are saying “I do not have sufficient evidence to know that _this_ particular Nigerian prince does not really have a billion dollars in an account that he cannot access.” ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/366 "2013-07-16T16:29:56Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeah, but why is that implausible? We must get other people asking other questions they would be better off taking to another community - and we don’t assume they’re trolls. Should we? We have regular posters here who ask questions that would get better answers on more specialized boards, but this is where they hang out, so they ask here. We also get first-time posters who ask questions that could probably get better answers on more specialized boards, but maybe they did a Google search and SDMB was among the top results. This particular first thread happens to be a question that would be much better answered in a forum dedicated to issues encountered by wheel-chair users. I suspect that most people who use the internet and use wheelchairs know about such forums. My skepticism was heightened when the troll defended itself. If my first thread on a message board was met with snark and a pitting, I would quietly disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/367 "2013-07-16T16:29:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Why _wouldn’t_ they ask us? Even if we have nothing to offer, that doesn’t mean someone won’t (perhaps mistakenly) ask the question. Has anyone actually done so honestly? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/368 "2013-07-16T16:30:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeah, I did think the volunteering of supposedly personal information was weird. Yeah, most people wouldn’t do that. And of course none of it pointed to a real person, so it didn’t even help. > [@](#): > > I agree, but as I said earlier (in this or one of the other related threads), I didn’t see a lot of skepticism. I saw suspicion and cynicism - which are not the same thing. They’re not the same, but they’re related. This is a message board and it’s fair to be suspicious of people who show up out of the blue with unusual and attention-seeking stories. I don’t want to see people get driven off by uninformed suspicion - I’m surprised that some of our legit posters have put up with that kind of scrutiny - and I would say I overreacted for that reason, but people here have seen enough fakers that they know who to take a second look at. > [@](#): > > Skepticism is about drawing conclusions well supported by evidence - that seems nearly the _opposite_ of what happened here. Call it a hunch, then. But it’s a hunch that came from experience. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/369 "2013-07-16T16:30:12Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > This seemed to be like you did. Maybe if you’re drunk. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/370 "2013-07-16T16:31:15Z")
The best thing to do on the Internet is to be a skeptical asshole. I love that umkay seems to be the gift that keeps on giving even if the troll was a separate person. The fun lives on. That being said the mspaint photo was not my personal favorite point in the thread. Marley championing that we all give umkay 2.0 a chance was my favorite bit. I hope in the future the administration and moderators here will remember the axiom, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and a valid ip address is about the weakest evidence there is in supporting a claim ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/371 "2013-07-16T16:31:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Has anyone actually done so honestly? Yes, people come here and ask questions they would be better off asking elsewhere. Why wouldn’t that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/372 "2013-07-16T16:32:31Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > We have regular posters here who ask questions that would get better answers on more specialized boards, but this is where they hang out, so they ask here. We also get first-time posters who ask questions that could probably get better answers on more specialized boards, but maybe they did a Google search and SDMB was among the top answers. This particular first thread happens to be a question that would be much better answered in a forum dedicated to issues encountered by wheel-chair users. I suspect that most people who use the internet and use wheelchairs know about such forums. > > My skepticism was heightened when the troll defended itself. If my first thread on a message board was met with snark and a pitting, I would quietly disappear. I would offer my license plate number and try to write with a cartoonish accent. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/373 "2013-07-16T16:35:25Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > That being said the mspaint photo was not my personal favorite point in the thread. Marley championing that we all give umkay 2.0 a chance was my favorite bit. Learn to read, please. > [@Marley23](#): > > As always, people should be careful about believing what they hear on the Internet. But they should also be careful about making accusations and assuming the worst even when they’ve been burned or watched liars do their thing in the past. It’s a difficult balance. We’ll take it from here, Detective. :rolleyes: > [@Marley23](#): > > If you’re asking me- like I said, I am not (and can’t) vouch for **jaymac1** , so I’m not encouraging anybody to take her at face value. That’s for people to decide on their own. I’d suggest people be careful about making accusations and maybe not do it just because they’re bored or want to be first. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/374 "2013-07-16T16:35:49Z")
Thing is we have disabled people on this forum, and nobody thinks they’re trolls. Three names immediately jump to mind, but they don’t join the forum with such ridiculous BS stories. Hell, etv78 might be faking the wheelchair thing, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/375 "2013-07-16T16:38:11Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Thing is we have disabled people on this forum, and nobody thinks they’re trolls. Three names immediately jump to mind, but they don’t join the forum with such ridiculous BS stories. Hell, etv78 might be faking the wheelchair thing, but I doubt it. My brave battle with priapism has been accepted as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/376 "2013-07-16T16:38:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No, that’s philosophical skepticism. Being skeptical is just not being prone to buy into bullshit. OK, but _how was it bullshit?_ Maybe if I’d been more involved in the umkay incident, I’d have the same gut feeling that others did. > [@](#): > > Ever hear the saying “Fool men once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me?”. If you treat each incident as independent, you’ll be constantly fooled. And if you don’t retain an open mind, you can jump to the wrong conclusion. Of course, nobody wants to be fooled twice, but until you know it’s an attempt at fooling you again, what do you do? > [@](#): > > It seems to me like you are saying “I do not have sufficient evidence to know that _this_ particular Nigerian prince does not really have a billion dollars in an account that he cannot access.” Of course not. This is not a particularly useful analogy for me. In the world, there are zero Nigerian princes trying to give away money. The number of disabled people with some kind of relationship quandary is very probably not zero. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/377 "2013-07-16T16:39:21Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yes, people come here and ask questions they would be better off asking elsewhere. Why wouldn’t that happen? I meant, has anyone at the SDMB honestly asked, as a wheelchair bound person, for opinions about how to deal with devotees? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/378 "2013-07-16T16:41:50Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I meant, has anyone at the SDMB honestly asked, as a wheelchair bound person, for opinions about how to deal with devotees? I’ve no idea, Is there something special about this precise variety of misplaced question? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/379 "2013-07-16T16:45:51Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Hell, etv78 might be faking the wheelchair thing, but I doubt it. I’ve met him. The wheelchair is real. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570/380 "2013-07-16T16:47:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Maybe if you’re drunk. Or not stupid. Especially when combined with your first post in this thread. But whatever, your white knight hill to die on. Shrug. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looks-like-umkay-is-back-so-we-may-as-well-get-this-thread-started/663570.md?page=20)