# Looper - Discussion thread(open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070 "2012-09-27T22:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/121 "2012-10-09T23:49:14Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > My friend asked why the didn’t just transport the soon to be dead people to the bottom of the ocean or something. Seems like future people aren’t that smart after all. It’s not clear if the time machine can transport people through space as well as through time. To drop someone at the bottom of the ocean in the past, I suspect you need to have the time machine at the bottom of the ocean in the future. > [@Spoke](#): > > ``` > Why would they even have guns, if they can't dispose of bodies? > > ``` The authorities of the future can track any murder. They may be a little fuzzier on the concept of kneecaps. > [@sumnermt](#): > > 1. At the very end of the movie, Young Joe realizes that Sid becomes evil because of all the evil he has seen. The death of his adoptive mother (Sara’s sister) and then his mother, herself. Young Joe has the vision of Sid on the train taking care of himself with a mean look on his face. > > Earlier in the movie Old Joe explains that every experience Young Joe has is immediately turned into a memory for Old Joe (which is proved multiple times in the movie). So why, when Young Joe Realize that Sid would turn out fine if Sara lived, doesn’t Old Joe realize it as well and put the gun down? Young Joe’s epiphany and suicide seem to be pretty instantaneous. I don’t know that old Joe had time to assimilate his new memories and put down his gun. In addition, regardless of what happens in the future now, old Joe is never going to see his wife again. He might be motivated, at that point, as much by revenge as by a desire to “fix” the future. Even if Sid doesn’t grow up to be evil, he’s still responsible (in some sense) for old Joe never seeing his wife again. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/122 "2012-10-10T02:50:14Z")
Also, why have the loopers kill their own future selves? That just seems to be asking for trouble. Why not send the future looper back to someone who doesn’t know him? ---
**Author:** ![Chef\_Troy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Chef\_Troy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chef_Troy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/123 "2012-10-10T04:14:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s not clear if the time machine can transport people through space as well as through time. To drop someone at the bottom of the ocean in the past, I suspect you need to have the time machine at the bottom of the ocean in the future. The loopers are shown receiving their victims at more than one location (Joe’s cornfield, Seth’s … is it an alley? Whatever - not a cornfield, anyway). It seems unlikely that the mob would have a separate time machine for each looper, so I’d say it’s pretty much a given that the time machine can transport people in space. Another point that argues against the Marinana Trench scenario is that these people are arriving out of thin air. The mob is not going to risk the horrendous explosion that would result from forcing two masses to occupy the same space at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/124 "2012-10-10T15:04:17Z")
I just saw the movie last night and really liked it. The plot kept me engaged. I also really liked the universe it was set it, it all felt very real. It felt like the filmmakers thought about the background things and could easily set more stories in the universe. > [@digs](#): > > Do tell! I kept thinking about 12 Monkeys, but I couldn’t tell you why. > > My Sci-Fi standards are high, and I really liked the movie. And I love how in Bruce Willis’s first discussion with Gordon-Levitt, he said something like “First of all, we’re not going to talk about time travel, or we’ll be here all afternoon trying to figure it out. Time travel is messy.” I liked that. I read an interview with Rian Johnson where he said how he’s a huge time travel geek and could have gone into it more, but it’s not that type of movie. The time travel stuff may (or may not) make total sense, but there’s just enough info to get into the real story. > [@Miller](#): > > One thing I really liked about the end: > > Joe didn’t need to kill himself. All he had to do was blow off his gun hand, and old Joe doesn’t have anything to shoot with. But Joe’s poor planning with regard to time travel was established in the dinner scene, when his older self points out that he could have used the other waitress’ shorter name to get a message to himself. Yeah, I liked that too. I’ve seen a few complaints elsewhere, like in the comments on i09 about how Joe should have blown off his hand. That would have been a better solution if he was more clever or had more time to think of a solution, but he didn’t. He had little time to act, so he did the best solution he thought of in that short time. > [@Hrududu](#): > > In the original timeline Young Joe killed Old Joe and went on to become Bruce Willis in China. In this timeline the Rainmaker was there causing havoc and killing loopers. As Young Joe had killed Old Joe, Old Joe wasn’t running around 2044 to kill Emily Blunt. Which means that Cid became The Rainmaker without having anything to do with Old Joe. > > I left the cinema sure that Cid would become a badun’ no matter what Young Joe did. But I like the idea that Young Joe could have shot his hand off to stop Old Joe. Which was a nice callback to him writing Beatrix’s name on his arm when he could have written Jen’s. As someone else pointed out upthread. > > I really enjoyed the film. I liked the ambiguity. Joe killed himself hoping that it would prevent Cid from becoming the Rainmaker. But he has no way of knowing for sure. That’s where it gets into whether our fates or inevitable or not. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Just saw it, enjoyed it, although maybe not quite as much as I’d hoped from all the buildup and positive reviews. > > A few things that seemed left open to me: > (a) how did Sarah know about loopers? > (b) was it just a coincidence that Sarah and friendly whore’s babies were born on the same day in the same hospital? If so, it seems like quite a reach > \*\*? (a) She said how she was heavy into partying and drugs and unable to raise a child. I figured with the bad lifestyle she was leading she was hanging with some bad people and knew some of the bad stuff going on, like about the existence of loopers. (b) That was distracting to me. It served the story, since that’s how the eager Gat Man was able to capture Old Joe, but otherwise it was a really big coincidence. > [@Miller](#): > > Here’s a thought: > > Sid’s mom knows about loopers. She also says that, when Sid was born, her lifestyle didn’t really allow for her to raise a kid. And we never find out who Sid’s dad was. So, my guess is that Sid’s dad was a looper, or possibly a gat man, or some how involved in the criminal underworld surrounding looping. In the “original” timeline, where old > Joe never escaped, Sid’s dad finds out about him (or his mom) and comes poking for him/her. He ends up killing the mom, which sets Sid off on his rampage thirty years later. But this future is rendered impossible, because old Joe murdered everyone in the looper organization. So, in effect, both versions of Joe are responsible for saving Sid and his mom - old Joe by killing the original looper, and young Joe by killing himself. Oh, that’s an interesting theory. I don’t know if it can be proved or disproved, but it’s fun to think about. > [@Malthus](#): > > But more significantly - some of the stuff that happens isn’t really explainable (other than by sheer perversity). Why, in the case of the first looper who failed to close his loop, > > does the Mob, once they get ahold of his younger self, carve bits off him to force his older self to come in (and be killed)? We know that if you kill the younger self, the older self just disappears! Much simpler solution. You have a point, that would have been simpler. But the paradox created probably doesn’t make it worth it. It be like solving a mouse infestation with guns and grenades- probably takes care of the problem but causes others. > [@Lightnin](#): > > **Malthus** - for your first question, it was stated that killing the younger looper was sort of a last resort, because it would result in 30 years of paradoxes (or something like that). > > However, it bugged me that they started lopping parts off. How’d the older looper get to where he was if his legs had been cut off thirty years before? And why was he wearing pants? Seems to me that would cause more paradoxes than just killing the younger version. I hadn’t thought of that. Probably because I was too disturbed to think about it more. That was one of the most disturbing scenes I’ve seen in a while. So I have two questions that aren’t plot holes and don’t affect the plot, but I was still wondering about them. [ul] [li]How does Joe know when to go to the cornfield? At the beginning we very quickly see him find a piece of paper that says 11:30, so he’s out there waiting. Maybe they are also able to send messages back in time to tell the loopers when to be ready? Or it’s a set schedule? Doesn’t matter, but it made me curious.[/li][li]What happens to a looper that dies between the present and when time travel is invented? Would he kept killing until he died of a heart attack in 15 years? Maybe not an issue know because of the Rainmaker and timey-wimey stuff, but I was wondering what the set out plan was, since this must happen to some loopers. [/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/125 "2012-10-10T15:09:24Z")
sure am glad I read/was warned about the “lopping off parts” scene in discussions of this movie. I simply could not go see that, no matter how much I like Joseph Gordon-Leavitt ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/126 "2012-10-10T15:18:11Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > sure am glad I read/was warned about the “lopping off parts” scene in discussions of this movie. I simply could not go see that, no matter how much I like Joseph Gordon-Leavitt It is super disturbing, but there is absolutely no gore and it’s a pretty short scene. If you have a movie buddy they could tell you to look away for the minute or so the scene is going on. Or if you wait for DVD it would be easy to fast forward through. If you otherwise want to see the movie, you shouldn’t let the one short scene stop you. Although there is some blood and gore in other parts of the movie, so if that’s your issue then maybe this isn’t the best movie for you. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/127 "2012-10-10T15:19:31Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > sure am glad I read/was warned about the “lopping off parts” scene in discussions of this movie. I simply could not go see that, no matter how much I like Joseph Gordon-Leavitt Well, you don’t see the bloody view of of the parts being lopped off the ‘young’ looper. You see how it effects the ‘old’ version of the looper and there is no blood. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/128 "2012-10-10T15:25:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > You have a point, that would have been simpler. But the paradox created probably doesn’t make it worth it. It be like solving a mouse infestation with guns and grenades- probably takes care of the problem but causes others. I’m not sure lopping off most of his bits (but leaving him alive) solves the creating-paradox problem. After all, he’s alive all right, but hardly able to do the stuff he was able to do before. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/129 "2012-10-10T15:30:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s not clear if the time machine can transport people through space as well as through time. To drop someone at the bottom of the ocean in the past, I suspect you need to have the time machine at the bottom of the ocean in the future. Old Joe went into a time-machine in China (presumably) and ended up in a cane field in USA. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/130 "2012-10-10T15:34:58Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m not sure lopping off most of his bits (but leaving him alive) solves the creating-paradox problem. > > After all, he’s alive all right, but hardly able to do the stuff he was able to do before. Unless they sew everything back on afterwards. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/131 "2012-10-10T15:42:32Z")
It’s not gore, so much as the concept of lopping off body parts as a torture that is extremely off-putting. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/132 "2012-10-10T15:44:44Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m not sure lopping off most of his bits (but leaving him alive) solves the creating-paradox problem. > > After all, he’s alive all right, but hardly able to do the stuff he was able to do before. That’s true. But I guess once a looper is sent back and escapes, there’s going to be problems no matter what. It seems the options for the mob are these: [ol] [li]Let old and young guy live freely.[/li][li]Let young guy live free, keep pursuing the old guy and hopefully capture him quickly.[/li][li]Kill the young guy.[/li][li]Torture the young guy enough to get the old guy’s attention.[/li][/ol] The last two cause paradoxes. The first two might or might not cause paradoxes. I guess the old guy could cause problems for the mob, using his knowledge of the future to affect the past. And the mob isn’t taking any chances and has to take him out just to be sure. Also, it sounded like this might have been a new solution of Abe’s. Joe knew it was bad when his friend let his old self live. But Joe didn’t seem to know what exactly would happen, since Joe asked if the young version of his friend would be shot, and Abe assured him he wouldn’t. So maybe this was something new they were trying and they thought they’d see how the consequences were. As someone said previously in the thread, these weren’t scientists and engineers dealing with time travel; these were thugs who don’t necessarily think before they act. But really, all of those problems could be avoided if they didn’t have loopers close their loop in the first place. If they were just hitmen who killed guys sent back from the future, until after a while they were paid off and lived the rest of their years away from the criminal life. Closing the loop seems to cause more problems than it solves. Other than there wouldn’t be a movie if loopers didn’t exist. Also, this reminds me of one of my other issues with the film- why did Joe give his friend up so easily? It didn’t seem to take much convincing. Maybe he thought it was hopeless for his friend, and no reason for both Joe and his friend to get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/133 "2012-10-10T17:42:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Also, this reminds me of one of my other issues with the film- why did Joe give his friend up so easily? It didn’t seem to take much convincing. Maybe he thought it was hopeless for his friend, and no reason for both Joe and his friend to get hurt. Joe’s a murderer and a borderline sociopath. When presented with the choice between saving his friend’s life, and giving up some money, he has very little difficulty choosing the money. This is because Joe is a first-class scumbag. The only decent thing he did in his entire life was shoot himself in the heart. Joe also doesn’t particularly like Seth, who’s also a scumbag murderer, and a pathetic little weasel on top of everything else. They’re “friends” only because there’s literally no one else on the planet who’s willing to put up with either of them. When Joe has his mini-breakdown over killing Seth, it’s partly out of guilt over realizing he’d killed his best friend, but, I suspect, also partly out of shame over the realization that his best friend was someone like Seth. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/134 "2012-10-10T20:19:06Z")
I just saw Looper and enjoyed the all the paradoxes, unanswered question etc but holy balls was it boring once he got to the farm. I nearly fell asleep, and nearly left, but I stayed to see the end. I was disappointed at the TK crap. For some reason I can buy a time travel premise, but can’t buy that the kid was magic. They should have just made him a badass in the future and skipped the TK stuff. I expected him to read his favorite book about a rainmaker or something to reveal his future, not to become magic. One thing I don’t get is why Bruce Willis was surprised in year 30 when the dudes came for him. As they shower his progression, he got more badass and I expected him to start making plans to disappear or kill the people responsible at year 25, not wait peacefully until the day he knew he would be taken. Also, why was the mafia so honest that they had contracts stating what they would do in the future? Why not just quietly send them back? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/135 "2012-10-11T03:13:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Also, this reminds me of one of my other issues with the film- why did Joe give his friend up so easily? It didn’t seem to take much convincing. Maybe he thought it was hopeless for his friend, and no reason for both Joe and his friend to get hurt. I think they were doing a little Judas/30-pieces-of-silver thing there. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/136 "2012-10-11T03:15:53Z")
What’s the point of killing loopers after exactly 30 years, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/137 "2012-10-11T03:46:08Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > What’s the point of killing loopers after exactly 30 years, anyway? It’s not that they’re waiting 30 years to kill them, it’s that they’re sending them 30 years back to kill them. The time travel seems to be hard coded to a specific time frame, 30 years. Which is why loops were being closed over a short time period because 30 years later the Rainmaker was taking them all down over a short period of time. Which is also why the Loopers were celebrating every time a loop was closed. For a criminal lifestyle like theirs, knowing you’ve got 30 years of without worrying about being killed is great. I kinda wish we got to see a Looper who never closed their loop, so they would know that they were gonna die in the next 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/138 "2012-10-11T07:30:50Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > Old Joe went into a time-machine in China (presumably) and ended up in a cane field in USA. The guys that came for him weren’t Chinese IIRC. That means they probably didn’t have a ‘branch office’ or a time-machine there. They most likely flew or shipped him back home. ---
**Author:** ![Hogwash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e57/32.png) [@Hogwash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogwash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/139 "2012-10-11T21:14:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think there’s three in the movie: > > Old Joe is killed by young Joe. Sid grows up to be Rainmaker > > Old Joe isn’t killed by young Joe. Old Joe kill’s Sid’s mom. Sid grows up to be Rainmaker. > > Old Joe isn’t killed by young Joe, because young Joe kills himself, but Sid and/pr Sid’s mom is sufficiently inspired by young Joe’s sacrifice that Sid doesn’t grow up to be the Rainmaker. Was number two actually a real timeline or just the speculative imagination on the part of Young Joe in the few seconds he was watching Old Joe about to shoot through the mother to kill Cid? “Oh my god, if I don’t stop my old self killing the mom then the kid’s going to be pissed and end up the criminal mastermind he’s supposed to be in future”. I can only remember the first and third timelines actually happening, with the first a pre-requisite for the third to take place in parallel/overlap. Where was the shooting of Sara by Old Joe established other than in the narrated “what if?” section at the end of the film? While I enjoyed the film, I think it is one of those high concept films that could have been executed ten times better than actually happened (in our timeline at least. Maybe Bruce Willis travels back to 2011 in a few years to hold a script re-write at blunderbuss-point). The compelling hook of the concept is: What if people were sent back in time to be killed by assassins, who would be paid in silver bars sent back with the victim? And what if the same assassins would be sent back to be killed by their past selves (but for gold not silver), but THEY WOULDN’T KNOW UNTIL THEY HAD ALREADY KILLED THEMSELVES AND SEEN DA GOLD! (I want to know where da gold at! I want da gold!) A million different interpretations, whether explosion-laden popcorn flick, character-driven moral drama, paranoid sci-fi B-movie or whatever could have been made. I think the inclusion of telekinesis detracted from rather than added to the film. When they first started expositioning (new word) that ten percent of people in the future could move quarters with their minds it came across as cheap sci-fi faux-dystopia schlock. Like the epidemic of infertility in _Children of Men_: some bullshit premise that is necessary for the plot and you are required to accept before the film can even be viewed and appreciated on its own merits. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070/140 "2012-10-15T03:45:12Z")
Just saw it and loved it. I have pretty big standards when it owes to science fiction, especially time travel. My take on the characters and timeline. 1. Sid1 was born, unnaturally precocious and a super TK. His aunt raises him until he’s 4, until his Aunt died (thinking she was his real mom), then his real mom takes him to the farm to try and start fresh. However, she never seems to be able to connect with Sid, and I assume he never accepts her as his mother, and accusing her of lying to him, and with contempt, uncontrollable fears and temper, TKs her apart at some point in the future, leading him to a life of corruption. 2. When Sid1 grows up he either invents Time Travel, or becomes proficient in using it underground, perhaps to try and go back to save his mom. (Maybe 30 years is the maximum jump, so it’s impossible). Anyhow, it’s made illegal due to the horrible consequences changing the past has for denizens of the future. Sid creates an underground mafia and uses his technology to dispose of bodies, reticent of changing the past too much, and organizes a mafia for who knows what, maybe he needs more money to advance his time machine. Anyhow the Loopers become a side effect of this criminal activity. 3. Young Joe 1 (YJ1), gets into the Looper biz by Abe. 4. YJ1 kills OJ1, gets his gold payoff, and lives the highlife in the mob biz, until he meets his Chinese wife, who nurtures him and gets him off of drugs. He loves someone for the first time, and had plans to have kids with her. He becomes OJ2. 5. Now, OJ2 has been out of the biz for years now, because of his wife, but for reasons not explained, the Rainmaker wants to close out all the Loopers. Sure he knew it was coming, just not the exact day or hour; but had long since excepted it. What he didn’t expect was his wife accidentally getting killed. 6. OJ2 Now enraged and indignant, he sets out to avoid his Loop being closed, to save his wife from being killed. ZAP! The original Timeline has now now changed to Timeline 2. 1. OJ2 shows up unhooded to meet YJ2. He escapes his “loop closing”. He knocks out YJ2 and takes the truck. 2. OJ2, having received the numbers that disclose the Rainmaker’s birthday and hospital where he was born (from some future agent in an untold espionage mission to bring him down) he goes to the library’s computer to find three births that happened on that day at that hospital, in 2038. Time being of the essence, he has no choice but to murder each one in succession. 3. YJ2 carves up his arm to hail OJ2. It’s here OJ2 tries to convince YJ2 that he needs to meet his wife, because she was OJ2’s proverbial savior. YJ2 doesn’t care and turns out to be as stubborn as his older self. Besides, he doesn’t have the convictions OJ2 does. He asks to see who she is so he can avoid meeting her, but OJ2 can’t have that, as that relationship meant more than anything to him, now his younger self is threatening that. In the ensuing scuffle with the Gats, OJ2 rips the map away from YJ2 and flees to kill the first kid on the list. 1. Meanwhile, TJ2 happens to have the torn section of the map that turns out to be the Rainmaker’s farmhouse. 2. We meet Sid, and his unholy abilities. Sara always fails to calm, and runs to a panic safe in fear. As soon as YJ2 witnesses Sid tearing apart that Gat who was holding Sara hostage, with his TK, OJ2, who was just at that moment going to kill the strippers kid, get’s YJ2’s memory of the event. Now he knows he doesn’t have to kill the stripper’s kid. 3. OJ2 gets caught by douchbags Gat, and taken in, where he clears house of the Looping HQ. now that everyone in his way is dead, he’s going to bring down Sid. 4. Sara and YJ2 get it on, and despite knowing what Sid can do and will become, he doesn’t have the conviction of OJ2, Chinese wife or not. So he decides Sara’s plan, to raise her child in a loving way, and help him control it will work for now. 5. OJ2 shows up, YJ2 and him don’t see eye to eye, but Douchbag comes in with is flying cycle, gets killed by YJ2, the cycle spills all the silver. 6. During this distraction OJ2 makes down the road to get the kid. Sid flips the truck, and they run for the feild. This is the pivotal moment. 1. when Sid2 has Sara and OJ2 floating in the air, ready to destroy them, Sara calms him down. 2. YJ2 understood that OJ2 would fail to kill Sid2, risk shooting Sara then Sid2 would follow his dark path. So YJ2 erased OJ2 by killing himself, even as OJ2 was becoming aware from YJ2’s 30 year old memories from that very moment. **So, my conclusion is, had this event never occured, Sid would’ve ultimately created time travel, using it for nefarious purposes. It’s _because_ of Sara’s love for Joe, she was finally able to overcome her fear of Sid, and calm his rage, and this is the first time he calls her “mom”, and has fully accepts her love and finally trusts her. And they’re rich** How the rest of Sid’s life plays out is left to the imagination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looper-discussion-thread-open-spoilers/636070.md?page=8)