# Loosing an accent to "improve" oneself? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 18, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970 "2003-05-18T01:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hedra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@hedra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hedra)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/41 "2003-05-23T18:19:36Z")
It is called code-switching. It is a normal part of your social process, linguistically. I don’t have time to explain it. See here: [http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2000/12/18/fp11s1-csm.shtml](http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2000/12/18/fp11s1-csm.shtml) Or I’ll steal a quote from me on another thread (on Ebonics): > [@](#): > > Why do people switch between one dialect and another? And also, why do people find it so annoying/disrespectful/etc. when someone does NOT switch to the ‘appropriate’ dialect? > > And that leads me to my master’s thesis. > > Code-switching is the fundamental process involved. We’ve established (thanks to some very well-written work by Lamia) that there are valid dialects involved. > > People use language codes that include the dialect, word choice, topic choice, and accent (even without the general dialect). > > Code choice is determined by the person’s perception of their identity and role within the setting (including location, members of the group, reason for being there, etc.). > > So, when talking to business people, the admins speak business english. Their role includes that they are business people, and does not include their identity as Urban African-american. When they speak on the phone to a friend, who also identifies as Urban African-american, they use the codes that say ‘I am in the same category as you’. Language choice, dialect choice, accent, topic, word choice switch to match the identity and role within that context. > > Effective code-switching is commonly associated with business success. This, to my mind was why ebonics was being introduced. Poorly done, but that is still the issue - being able to use another set of codes when appropriate, and valuing the ‘home/core-identity’ code set as equal was part of that process. > > Examples of me, code-switching. Not talking about the details of breastfeeding with work clients, unless the group has sub-selected into a bunch of working mothers with small children, in which case, the group identity as ‘working mothers with small children’ includes the topic choice as an appropriate option. Picking up the accent of someone I need to work closely with, but not doing so intentionally. Not using jargon when talking with a mixed group of people both inside and outside my profession. > > When someone fails to fully code-switch, it does set them apart. It annoys us because they are proclaiming their differentness, their NON-membership in the group. > > Sometimes, that lack of code-switching is intentional. A person may choose to retain their identity as, say, profoundly religious, by mentioning their faith (topic choice) during work conversations. It makes others uncomfortable when it happens, because you are suddenly faced with not being identified as members of the same group. You are different, and they have said so by their code use. > > But sometimes, especially with accent and pronunciation when moving between languages and dialects, it is not intentional. They just don’t have clear distinctions between the two code sets for certain sounds, or lack the verbal (physical) skills to make the switch complete. This is where my brother-in-law comes in. He’s a speech pathologist who specializes in accent remediation. He works with people who cannot seem to lose the accent or pronunciation enough to fully switch into their business/professional identity. They may still ‘identify’ accidentally as Russian immigrants, or Southern, or Urban Black. And that gets in the way of their business life. Effective code-switching is very useful for business success. Doesn’t mean they feel less like Russian immigrants or Southern or Urban Black inside, or at home, or with their friends. But they want to simply identify as ‘professional’ when at work. And doing so requires extra work on the skill at times. > > Code-switching is a social skill. People who do not do so effectively are considered socially awkward by many people. Like the guy at the dinner party who can’t stop speaking ‘geek’… he isn’t switching to match the group identity/role-as-guest. Or the guy who drops references to money/status/education/class into a conversation - he is specifying his role/identity as superior, which is poor code-switching (or intentional lack thereof). > > My thesis, by the way, looked at individual identification of place as a basis of code-switching decisions. We know that people do switch based on location - say, the difference in content of conversations in front of the elevator at work vs. standing in the executive conference room… even with the same people, what you choose to discuss will differ. As a geographer, I looked at what the linguists called a black box (location/sense of place), and determined that you could definitely identify the boundaries of a location that was related to sense of identity. > > Anyway, hope that clarifies some why it is frustrating/annoying/offensive when someone doesn’t code switch - we tend to think they do it on purpose, actively are identifying themselves as ‘not members of this group’, but often it is just a lack of skill, or incomplete switching. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/42 "2003-05-23T18:34:19Z")
I’ve lived enough places that I tend to be a language chameleon – give me two weeks somewhere and I’ll start absorbing the accent. All I have to do is drive across the Texas border and I’m talking Texan again, however, even though I didn’t actually grow up there – I spent more time there than anywhere because that’s where my dad’s family is from. My father, OTOH, worked very hard indeed to get rid of his Texas accent (mostly because he hated his mother and she loved Texas, therefore he hated all things Texan – great reason, right?), and it only cropped up rarely in occasional words. I often try to pick up local accents, just for fun. The only accent I’ve had zero luck with so far is a peculiar accent on the Westbank of New Orleans that sounds like a cross between Alabama and the Bronx – a priest is FAW-thah, and yet other words are pure southern. A lot of it is in the phrasing, too – very strange. “She’s from out da PAA-rish.” A nice challenge. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/43 "2003-05-23T19:02:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rayne Man \* > **Some people go the other way. One example is the violinist Nigel Kennedy. I have seen some TV recordings of him when he was about ten years old and he spoke with a slightly “posh” accent. Now he speaks with a pseudo cockney or estuary English accent.** Another example would be Colin Farrell. Every interview I’ve seen with him he’s putting on this thick Dub accent - in fact he is from a posh suburb (Castleknock). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/44 "2003-05-23T19:17:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Necromancer \* > \*\*If people can’t understand what you’re saying, it’s probably a good idea to do something about it if it bothers you. I’m an Aussie and I quite often get picked as being a Brit. I don’t think I sound British, but maybe it’s because I hear myself differently. \*\* It seems to be quite common for Brits to be asked “are you Australian?” when in the US. Maybe we’ve sneakily all swapped accents. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/45 "2003-05-23T19:25:51Z")
I get mistaken for an Australian here in Ireland a lot. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/46 "2003-05-23T19:39:55Z")
Quite apart from being understood by others, there are still the unfortunate instances of outright discrimination based on a person’s accent. I’m sure you’ve seen the studies done where two people called in response to newspaper ads for apartment rentals. The person with the obvious “black” accent was told that there were no more openings, while the person with a more neutral (broadcast-speak?) accent was told that there were still plenty of apartments open. It’s unfortunate that stuff like this still happens, but it does. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/47 "2003-05-23T20:45:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Now she mostly has the standard indistinguishable American accent My understanding is that there is no “standard” dialect in America. The Mid-western accent became the broadcast standard because that’s where the broadcast schools were for a long time. From my days in college (decades ago) I remember a study about people who move from the North to the South and vice versa. These tendencies were noted: Men from the South who moved to the North tended to lose their Southern accents. Women from the South who moved to the North tended to retain their Southern accents. Men from the North who moved to the South tended to retain their Northern accents. Women from the North who moved to the South tended to adopt the Southern accent. Fallen Angel: > [@](#): > > I keep the adopted accent for professional situations, since any southern accent tends to drop your estimated IQ by at least 20 points in the minds of anyone who doesn’t have one already… I understand what you are saying, but wouldn’t it be better in the long run for people to discover through you that Southerners are no less intelligent? Several of you have mentioned how quickly you pick up accents. I have the same instinct and that has proved to be embarrassing. One summer a friend from Denmark visited with me. Even around my parents, I spoke English with a Danish accent. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/48 "2003-05-23T21:14:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fat Bald Guy \* > \*\*Quite apart from being understood by others, there are still the unfortunate instances of outright discrimination based on a person’s accent. > > I’m sure you’ve seen the studies done where two people called in response to newspaper ads for apartment rentals. The person with the obvious “black” accent was told that there were no more openings, while the person with a more neutral (broadcast-speak?) accent was told that there were still plenty of apartments open. > > It’s unfortunate that stuff like this still happens, but it does. \*\* Yes, I imagine it still does. Several years ago, Mr. MLS & I were looking for an apartment. He called to answer an ad in the paper. The prospective landlord told us to meet him at a specified address and he’d take us to see the place. When we got there, he apologized for making us do that, because, he said “You sounded colored on the phone, and I have to be careful.” My husband does have a sort of New York/eastern European accent – born overseas, moved to NYC as a young child. Obviously the numnut landlord thought any accent other than his own was suspect. We didn’t want the apartment anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/49 "2003-05-23T21:16:26Z")
Wow. I had no idea this topic went through at all. I had typed out a long and detailed OP, pushed “Submit”, and got an error page. It didn’t appear when I did a search on my name, and so I just gave up. I only found it now while idling browsing through IMHO. Anyway, the general point I was gonna make was that I’ve seen a trend of Southerners going to special classes in order to “improve” themselves by loosing their accent. The idea being that a Southern accent cripples you in the wider world – people tend to stereotype you as being uneducated or ignorant, so it’s just easier to conform. I am no fan of this trend. I’m very proud of my beautiful accent and couldn’t imagine purposely erasing it. Anyone who would view me as uneducated or ignorant based on my accent isn’t worth my time, anyway. Does having a regional accent – especially one viewed in a negative light, like a Southern accent – be a handicap? And if it is a handicap, is it right to loose it just to fit in a little better? .:Nichol:. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/50 "2003-05-24T01:48:40Z")
I enjoy listening to people with different accents. Of course, I don’t have one myself, because people are _supposed_ to sound the way I do. Seriously, though, the only way I see purposely trying to lose an accent as “self-improvement” would be when speaking a completely foreign language. If I were trying to learn French, I would try to speak it as a Frenchman, not as a Californian. Also, > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by jinwicked_ > My accent’s all screwy because I grew up in the South, spent some time in Minneapolis and New York, and then **Canadia** … I thought I was the only person who spelled it that way. I also have a tendency to refer to people from the UK as coming from “Britland.” ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/51 "2003-05-24T07:32:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > **My understanding is that there is no “standard” dialect in America.** Not really. What I meant by that was that she now has an accent which the average listener would be unable to pinpoint as anything other than “American”, as opposed to her earlier accent which would have screamed “New Jersey”. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/52 "2003-05-24T16:46:27Z")
When I transplanted from NJ to CA, I swore I wouldn’t lose my accent. It’s quite surprising though how many people, strangers even, will go out of their way to point out a pronunciation, or a mis-pronunciation as they see it. I became so self-conscious that even though I wished to retain my accent, I fretted over every word and ended up adopting the bland western accent for the most part. Moving to WA has further eradicated it, although sometimes when I drink or get excited and talk quickly it’ll come out. Certain words like “coffee” and “dog” and the like I pronounce in a hybrid manner somewhere between a NJ and a CA accent and I suspect that will never stop. Interestingly, I’ve had several female friends from the west comment that they find the accent sexy. Go figure, it sure didn’t help me in NJ. ---
**Author:** ![Scribble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scribble/32/3317_2.png) [@Scribble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scribble)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/53 "2003-05-24T20:34:36Z")
I was raised in NJ and moved to Cincinnati, OH just before I turned 15. I was treated pretty mercilessly because of my accent, so I self-consciously learned what I would call “American Media Neutral.” When I’m excited, or stressed, or very tired, I’ll sometimes sound like I’m from NJ, which my labmates still sometimes make fun of. I’ve come to feel that I can use my native accent and intuitive word choices with people I feel very close to, but everyone else gets my American Media Neutral. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/54 "2003-05-25T04:46:13Z")
FWIW - in the early days of sound movies, there were many stars and wanna-bes under contract who were not native American English speakers. They were told to go find coaches and learn to speak proper American English. They all found Southern Crackers and came back to the studios sounding like Georgia Peaches - their reasoning, those voices sounded the prettiest, so those are the people they paid to coach them. The studio had another view and sent them all - Welsh, Swedish, Italian, Greek, Scottish, etc. - to studio approved elocution coaches and paid the bill. They all ended up with that weird no-where accent that Barbara Stanwyck (originally from Brooklyn or Jersey or somewhere associated with a certain lifestyle) used until her death. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/55 "2003-05-25T05:09:39Z")
My kitchen has forever been free of any “Accent” whatsoever and I’ve _always_ been the better cook for it. ---
**Author:** ![irishbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishbird)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970/56 "2003-05-25T14:10:10Z")
Mine’s a Northern Ireland accent which, in my early days in London (when the IRA were particularly active) caused me quite a few problems. The minute I spoke, I had people telling me how they would sort the NI problem out as well as potential employers refusing to employ me. In one particular interview the interviewer actually stopped taking notes when he heard my accent! The cheek! lol! I also felt some people held me personally responsible for IRA activities! (I wasn’t) My accent hasn’t faded at all - taxi drivers still try to take me the long way round as they think I’m only here on holiday. It’s quite funny in a lot of ways. I haven’t tried to lose it. Why should I? I do occasionally have to use the “English” pronunciation when on the phone but really, I’m quite happy with it the way it is thank you very much. It’s much better in recent years as it seems the Irish are now well thought of these days and people often tell me how much they like it. If anything, it’s a bonus now compared to my early days here. My boyfriend laughs when I say things like 8, 88, how now brown cow, and the rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain. I love accents and think we should all keep the accent we were born into 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loosing-an-accent-to-improve-oneself/175970.md?page=2)