# Looters: Shoot on sight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528 "2005-09-01T01:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/41 "2005-09-01T02:41:55Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Looters endanger lives by spreading law enforcement/rescue too thin. That;s why law enforcement needs to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/42 "2005-09-01T02:41:57Z")
**Diogenes the Cynic** > [@](#): > > I have this pesky sense of right and wrong. Mods? This is questionable isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/43 "2005-09-01T02:44:43Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > **Diogenes the Cynic** > > Mods? This is questionable isn’t it? 😕 Is there a rule against having a sense of right and wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/44 "2005-09-01T02:44:59Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Ask them nicely to cease and disperse. Then a warning that deadly force is about to be used. Then…_blammo_ ! You _have_ to put these looters down, no question. They are breaking the law and stealing somebody else’s property. It’s a mob mentality. You have to start cutting them down as lawlessness breaks out, otherwise you’re allowing criminals to run the city. A show of deadly force is sometimes needed to get a mob’s attention. …what was your position on the decision by the US administration and Coalition Commanders in Iraq to essentially allow unrestrained looting in Baghdad immediately after the invasion? Do you disagree with Donald Rumsfeld’s assertions that lootings are the results of “pent up feelings” and that “free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things”? Stuff happens indeed. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/) ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/45 "2005-09-01T02:45:30Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Stop what? One looter shoots a cop so yiu see that as an excuse to start massacring people who had nothing to do with it. Sorry but that doesn’t wash with me. I have this pesky sense of right and wrong. You must’ve missed this sentence: \*At one point, officers stranded on the roof of a hotel were fired at by criminals on the street. \* I don’t know about you, but I see an ‘s’ in there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/46 "2005-09-01T02:45:35Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > This kind of behavior OK with you? Any ideas off the top of your head on how to stop it? There is no communication down there, so I don’t think shooting a few of the looters will get the message out. In which case you end up with people focusing on shooting looters when there are people to be saved. There’s no point in drawing these guardsmen and cops into a guerrilla war. As it is I don’t know how they’ll restore order 3-4 months from now. Are you saying you would have trouble deciding between “save people trapped on their roofs” and “save my shit?” ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/47 "2005-09-01T02:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > That;s why law enforcement needs to ignore them. So when a desperate shop owner tries to wrestle away his property from looters, he’s just on his own huh? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/48 "2005-09-01T02:48:20Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > You are making a fallacious argument based on an appeal to emotion. A children’s hospital was not in fact raided; apparently such an attempt was made, but it was turned away without using deadly force. A cop was in fact shot; no others have been so far, fortunately. The rest of the things mentioned so far exist only as rumor and yourn imagination; if and when such violence occurs, some use of deadly force may be necessary, but let’s leave it up to the actual professionals as to whether and when it should be used, shall we? How do you account for the fact that not a single law enforcement official that I know of has asked officially, or even lobbied for, the indiscriminate shooting of looters? > > The looting occurring in New Orleans and other areas at the moment is an extremely short-term phenomenon that will have ended entirely within a few days, whether or not deadly force is used to any degree. Why? 1) by that time nearly everyone will have been evacuated from the city; 2) by that time there will be a heavy enough presence of law enforcement, including armed National Guardsmen to effectively guard the city. We’e in total agreement. Deadly force _may_ have to be used and used by the professionals if and when such a time occurs. I’m just arguing against the people in this thread who seem to believe that _any_ behavior is acceptable by the looters/criminals/murderers simply because of the extraordinary circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/49 "2005-09-01T02:49:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There is no communication down there, so I don’t think shooting a few of the looters will get the message out. In which case you end up with people focusing on shooting looters when there are people to be saved. There’s no point in drawing these guardsmen and cops into a guerrilla war. As it is I don’t know how they’ll restore order 3-4 months from now. Are you saying you would have trouble deciding between “save people trapped on their roofs” and “save my shit?” I guess I’d like to see the folks who think shooting at cops is a good idea to maybe put down their stolen guns and perhaps _help out_ with the rescuing of people from their roofs. Call me a dreamer, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/50 "2005-09-01T02:50:01Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …what was your position on the decision by the US administration and Coalition Commanders in Iraq to essentially allow unrestrained looting in Baghdad immediately after the invasion? Do you disagree with Donald Rumsfeld’s assertions that lootings are the results of “pent up feelings” and that “free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things”? Stuff happens indeed. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/) I’ll answer this one: I was very against the looting. Rumsfeld is an idiot. The looting needs to be stopped, strong efforts need to be made to not use deadly force. But Deadly force may be called for. This sucks, but threatning hospitals sucks more, endangering rescue workers sucks more. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/51 "2005-09-01T02:50:36Z")
Curious how you left out your quote **DtC**. You were insinuating that **Stephe96** , has no sense of right and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/52 "2005-09-01T02:51:33Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Curious how you left out your quote **DtC**. > You were insinuating that **Stephe96** , has no sense of right and wrong. Nah, he’s right. I don’t. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/53 "2005-09-01T02:54:44Z")
Okay then. Junior mod hat off. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/54 "2005-09-01T02:55:31Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Curious how you left out your quote **DtC**. > You were insinuating that **Stephe96** , has no sense of right and wrong. I didn’t “leave out” my quote. When you click the “reply” button, it automatically deletes any internal quotes. Hit the reply box for this post. Notice how it “left out” your own post? As to your noble defense of **Stephe96** , are you suggesting that it’s against the rules to disagree with someone else about whether something is right or wrong? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/55 "2005-09-01T03:00:31Z")
Hmm… > [@](#): > > I have this pesky sense of right and wrong. Seems to say: “You don’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/56 "2005-09-01T03:04:39Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Cite? In Texas, at night, you can legally shoot a thief. In general, to legally kill someone in most US states, you pretty much have to be in fear of severe bodily harm. There is therefore no legal way to shoot looters for just looting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/57 "2005-09-01T03:06:06Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I guess I’d like to see the folks who think shooting at cops is a good idea to maybe put down their stolen guns and perhaps _help out_ with the rescuing of people from their roofs. Call me a dreamer, I guess. If they were going to do that, they wouldn’t have taken the guns in the first place. It’d be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/58 "2005-09-01T03:06:07Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Hmm… > > Seems to say: “You don’t.” If I think someone is advocating something immoral, am I not allowed to say so? What specific rule do you think I’m violating? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/59 "2005-09-01T03:09:16Z")
In Texas you aren’t even compelled to flee from a thief/looter. You can stand your ground(day or night) and use deadly force to ensure one’s personal safety. Which includes saving one’s property. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528/60 "2005-09-01T03:10:38Z")
> [@](#): > > What specific rule do you think I’m violating? A direct personal insult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looters-shoot-on-sight/319528.md?page=4)