# Looting in New Orleans... God's displeasure **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389 "2005-08-31T05:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/41 "2005-08-31T15:16:57Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Yes, I keep overlooking the people stealing baby medicine to send to Africa. I know there’s probably more people out there carting off DVD players and priceless antiques right now than food and batteries, but some people may actually, genuinely _need_ the stuff they’re taking–food and batteries, not DVD players and antiques–and intend to pay the damages later. Don’t dismiss them all out of hand. (Side note: what about the museums and art galleries in NO? Any reported thefts from there?) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/42 "2005-08-31T15:21:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I judge the seriousness of crimes by damage don to victims. Who are the victims in this case? Walmart? Fuck Walmart. Most of the merchandise being taken is stuff that’s already written off as a loss anyway so the stores aren’t actually affected. I see it as a victimless crime. Most of the {reported} looting that has occurred to this point has been near the center city where there are no Wal-Marts and where the _majority_ of shop owners are small businessmen who pay exorbitant amounts for insurance with incredibly high premiums, higher deductibles, and lots of “act of god” exemptions. If your basic moral compass is guided by “screw the rich,” then the majority of NO looting still falls well within the parameters of immorality. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/43 "2005-08-31T15:23:33Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Shoot 'em. Anybody carrying something other than food or diapers, shoot first and don’t bother to ask questions. Martial law is in effect, and looting becomes a capital offense, with no appeal. > > Of course, disease and such will take care of most of these scum. But the crackdown by the authorities should be massive and brutal. Make an example of them, because it isn’t going to get any better in NO very soon. I can easily see the entire area reverting to anarchy if Order is not imposed with an iron fist. The penalty for stealing a DVD player should be death without trial? I think you might be more comfortable in a country like Iran. Incidentally, the authorities don’t have the time to go around killing petty thieves for your personal amusement. They’re still trying to save people’s lives. Saving human beings is more important than saving iPods right now. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/44 "2005-08-31T15:26:09Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Yeah, because SOME of the looting in LA was NOT opportunistic. They were looting for Jesus and Dr. King, right? Free Rodney King! Free TV sets! Free Rodney King! Free gold watches! Free Rodney King! Free stereos! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/45 "2005-08-31T15:27:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Most of the {reported} looting that has occurred to this point has been near the center city where there are no Wal-Marts and where the _majority_ of shop owners are small businessmen who pay exorbitant amounts for insurance with incredibly high premiums, higher deductibles, and lots of “act of god” exemptions. > > If your basic moral compass is guided by “screw the rich,” then the majority of NO looting still falls well within the parameters of immorality. It’s not “screw the rich,” it’s that the stuff being taken is already unsalable anyway, so the stores are not any _more_ affected by it if the stuff gets taken away than if it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/46 "2005-08-31T15:27:49Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > They’re still trying to save people’s lives. In a disaster area, restoring order (which includes the suppression of looting) is **necessary** to save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/47 "2005-08-31T15:30:00Z")
No it isn’t. Getting people out of attics is necessary to save lives. Suppressing looters would be an inexcusable waste of resources. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/48 "2005-08-31T15:40:23Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > In a disaster area, restoring order (which includes the suppression of looting) is **necessary** to save lives. I agree. Gangs of looters build in strength much like hurricanes. New crews are already being pulled out because the looters are too dangerous. I can’t help but believe that rescue and relief efforts will be hampered by gangs as well. I think they need to call up thousands of Army Reserve personnel above and beyond the need for immediate relief to restore order to the city. Shoot after verbal warning should be the order for the troops. No one is going to be able to do the needed work with the gangs around. They have to get them out of there eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/49 "2005-08-31T15:49:09Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I agree. Gangs of looters build in strength much like hurricanes. New crews are already being pulled out because the looters are too dangerous. I can’t help but believe that rescue and relief efforts will be hampered by gangs as well. > > I think they need to call up thousands of Army Reserve personnel above and beyond the need for immediate relief to restore order to the city. Shoot after verbal warning should be the order for the troops. > > No one is going to be able to do the needed work with the gangs around. They have to get them out of there eventually. Yep. Also, add in the fact that failure to suppress looting guarantees that more people will ignore the next evacuation warning in order to defend their homes, thus causing more deaths and more difficulties for relief efforts. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/50 "2005-08-31T15:49:20Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Yes, precisely. Rape is simply sex without consent. It is often violent, and typically so, just not in all cases. This is where we differ. Rape is inherintly, by definition, an act of violence. Looting is, by definition, by opportunistic. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/51 "2005-08-31T15:49:56Z")
It’s an interesting span of opinion we’ve got here. All the way from the Jean Valjean-esque sympathizers to the “shoot 'em on sight” school of thought, but I think that **Diogenes** has it right . I’m not advocating theft, per se, but I think that in a case like this one, there is truly little harm that can be caused by taking things that would be eventually useless in the course of time anyway. Whether it’s stolen or floats away is, I would imagine, of little consequence to the insured, and really, since flood insurance is difficult to deal with (and in some cases non-existant) that the theft of this merchandise is probably actually BETTER for the insured than letting the flood get to it (i’m sure someone will be along to correct me if I’m wrong). The bottom line anyway is that life trumps property. You cannot, and should not expend resources on attempting to restore order, when you can use those resources to save human lives. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/52 "2005-08-31T15:50:26Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Common sense. And so began the era of “common sense is my cite.” ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/53 "2005-08-31T15:54:32Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > This is where we differ. Rape is inherintly, by definition, an act of violence. Looting is, by definition, by opportunistic. We do differ. I see more shades of gray. > [@](#): > > And so began the era of “common sense is my cite.” I want credit for that and **Askia’s Law**. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/54 "2005-08-31T16:01:52Z")
How about not taking something _because it’s wrong_? It’s not okay to steal electronics and jewelry because they’re not vital to survival. Food, water, diapers, fine. If you need it, take it. But looting non-survival items is wrong. It’s stealing, and shrugging your shoulders and saying it’s ruined anyway doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/55 "2005-08-31T16:13:58Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > It’s an interesting span of opinion we’ve got here. All the way from the Jean Valjean-esque sympathizers to the “shoot 'em on sight” school of thought, but I think that **Diogenes** has it right . I’m not advocating theft, per se, but I think that in a case like this one, there is truly little harm that can be caused by taking things that would be eventually useless in the course of time anyway. Whether it’s stolen or floats away is, I would imagine, of little consequence to the insured, and really, since flood insurance is difficult to deal with (and in some cases non-existant) that the theft of this merchandise is probably actually BETTER for the insured than letting the flood get to it (i’m sure someone will be along to correct me if I’m wrong). > > The bottom line anyway is that life trumps property. You cannot, and should not expend resources on attempting to restore order, when you can use those resources to save human lives. I don’t have a cite, but I would be extremely surprised if many small retail establishments carry insurance against theft. I understand the premiums are outrageously high. And I don’t buy the 'it’s going to be destroyed anyway" argument. In many cases, this is simply not the case. Not everything will be below the waterline. Typically I am 100% against the death penalty, but in this case I do sympathize more with the “shoot 'em” camp. I think people underestimate the benefits to search, rescue and rebuilding efforts that law and order in the region provide. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/56 "2005-08-31T16:15:03Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > The bottom line anyway is that life trumps property. You cannot, and should not expend resources on attempting to restore order, when you can use those resources to save human lives. Gangs of looters endanger lives. Some of the things being looted include weapons and ammunition. A police officer has already been shot by them. They also endager the live of rescue and repair crews and those being rescued. Many of these people are not nice mothers trying to get baby formula. Let me make this very simple: 1. Looters are dangerous. 2. All civilians must be evacuated from the city. 3. Order must be restored to the city. 4. It has to be done eventually. 5. It is better to do it sooner rather than later. 6. It will take a large show of military and police force to stop the looting. 7. Deadly force may be necessary to restore order and to protect the lives of military and police. Let me, repeat. These people have to leave eventaully. Do whatever it takes now. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/57 "2005-08-31T16:17:19Z")
What makes it “wrong” is if it hurts somebody. If it doesn’t hurt anybody then it’s not wrong. It might not be _right_. It’s still opportunistic and greedy, but it’s not doing any more damage to the stores than what’s already been done. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/58 "2005-08-31T16:21:02Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Gangs of looters endanger lives. Some of the things being looted include weapons and ammunition. A police officer has already been shot by them. They also endager the live of rescue and repair crews and those being rescued. Many of these people are not nice mothers trying to get baby formula. > > Let me make this very simple: > > 1. Looters are dangerous. > 2. All civilians must be evacuated from the city. > 3. Order must be restored to the city. > 4. It has to be done eventually. > 5. It is better to do it sooner rather than later. > 6. It will take a large show of military and police force to stop the looting. > 7. Deadly force may be necessary to restore order and to protect the lives of military and police. > > Let me, repeat. These people have to leave eventaully. Do whatever it takes now. You have a very lively imagination. Fortunately, the National Gurad and the authorities in New Orleans are more concerned about pulling people out of damged buildings and off of rooftops than they are about somebody getting away with an Xbox. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/59 "2005-08-31T16:21:44Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > How about not taking something _because it’s wrong_? _Thank_ you. I saw footage of parents out looting with their kids, and I thought, “_Ew_. Just . . . _ew_.” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/60 "2005-08-31T16:23:34Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What makes it “wrong” is if it hurts somebody. If it doesn’t hurt anybody then it’s not wrong. It might not be _right_. It’s still opportunistic and greedy, but it’s not doing any more damage to the stores than what’s already been done. What is wrong is when these people gather en mass to commit crime. It endagers those being rescued and rescue crews, relief personnel, repair crews, new agenicies, and the police and military. One person stealing diapers does not equally two hundred people looting everything. At some point, it forms a critical mass that must be stopped. They have to leave eventually. Get a large military presence in there and use force if needed to do it sooner rather than later. It is basically a riot. Warn and then shoot if necessary. Gather the others and ship them off to the nearest available relief shelter. Again, they have to go. Why will they ever stop this behavior if they are stuck inside a cess pool of a city with no other resources? Force them out now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389.md?page=4)