# Looting in New Orleans... God's displeasure **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389 "2005-08-31T05:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/61 "2005-08-31T16:24:47Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What makes it “wrong” is if it hurts somebody. If it doesn’t hurt anybody then it’s not wrong. It might not be _right_. It’s still opportunistic and greedy, but it’s not doing any more damage to the stores than what’s already been done. You’ve been evacuated from your home during a flood. How would you feel if people had broken into your home and stolen things, when you were helpless to protect your property? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/62 "2005-08-31T16:28:14Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > You’ve been evacuated from your home during a flood. How would you feel if people had broken into your home and stolen things, when you were helpless to protect your property? As I noted earlier, it’s vital to make it clear to people that looting WILL be suppressed firmly. Otherwise, people will disregard evacuation orders for precisely that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/63 "2005-08-31T16:29:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > What is wrong is when these people gather en mass to commit crime. It endagers those being rescued and rescue crews, relief personnel, repair crews, new agenicies, and the police and military. One person stealing diapers does not equally two hundred people looting everything. At some point, it forms a critical mass that must be stopped. They have to leave eventually. Get a large military presence in there and use force if needed to do it sooner rather than later. > > It is basically a riot. Warn and then shoot if necessary. Gather the others and ship them off to the nearest available relief shelter. > > Again, they have to go. Why will they ever stop this behavior if they are stuck inside a cess pool of a city with no other resources? Force them out now. Bahh…it’s not hurting anything. They’re all just stealing garbage. It’s no different than if they were taking it out of dumpsters. I just can’t get all 3orked up about it and I think it’s ridiculous to say that authorities should pull resources away from rescue efforts in order to mow down people stealing Gameboys. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/64 "2005-08-31T16:31:23Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > As I noted earlier, it’s vital to make it clear to people that looting WILL be suppressed firmly. Otherwise, people will disregard evacuation orders for precisely that reason. I agree. People should understand that evacuating is an ORDER, not a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/65 "2005-08-31T16:32:12Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > As I noted earlier, it’s vital to make it clear to people that looting WILL be suppressed firmly. Otherwise, people will disregard evacuation orders for precisely that reason. They don’t have the resources, dude. People are dying in the water right now. You’re just going to have to find some other place to store your righteous indignation for a while. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/66 "2005-08-31T16:32:27Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Bahh…it’s not hurting anything. They’re all just stealing garbage. It’s no different than if they were taking it out of dumpsters. I just can’t get all 3orked up about it and I think it’s ridiculous to say that authorities should pull resources away from rescue efforts in order to mow down people stealing Gameboys. So I can rob you blind and then say, “ah, it’s all garbage anyway”? It’s my moral prerogative to decide whether or not something has value to you? I’ll be right over. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/67 "2005-08-31T16:33:38Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > You’ve been evacuated from your home during a flood. How would you feel if people had broken into your home and stolen things, when you were helpless to protect your property? I would have been pissed. But I’m only talking about the looting in stores, not personal households. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/68 "2005-08-31T16:36:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I would have been pissed. > > But I’m only talking about the looting in stores, not personal households. What difference does it make, morally or ethically? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/69 "2005-08-31T16:37:12Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I agree. People should understand that evacuating is an ORDER, not a suggestion. Realistically, such an order can’t be generally enforced if significant numbers of people insist on staying… which would be the inevitable result of allowing looting to run its course. There’s a case for turning a blind eye to scavenging survival items (particularly food that will become worthless anyway). Beyond that, it’s necessary to take a hard line. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/70 "2005-08-31T16:37:52Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > So I can rob you blind and then say, “ah, it’s all garbage anyway”? It’s my moral prerogative to decide whether or not something has value to you? I’ll be right over. I’m not _deciding_ it’s garbage, the flooding turned it all into garbage. And I’m only talking about stores, not personal households. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/71 "2005-08-31T16:38:43Z")
It’s not garbage _yet_, unless you’ve seen insurance adjusters with checklists wading through downtown. People who would steal non-vital items are criminals. IMHO, they are showing their true light, and the sooner the police get them, the better. If these people steal electronics and jewelry now, I would suspect they would have no moral qualms about robbing you in some dark alley. It’s like robbing a corpse. It may not hurt anyone, but it’s wrong and indecent. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/72 "2005-08-31T16:40:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s not “screw the rich,” it’s that the stuff being taken is already unsalable anyway, so the stores are not any _more_ affected by it if the stuff gets taken away than if it doesn’t. That is not what you initially said (or why single out Wal-Mart?) and this statement is no more true. Some (large) percentage of stock that would be inundated will be unsaleable. However, there is a level above which the waters will not rise and stock that is not inundated (and some portion of stock that will be soaked) will still be saleable–but only if it remains in the shop long enough to be handled by the owners. * * * On the other hand, for everyone who seems to be advocating a “shoot first and let God sort 'em out” approach to stopping the looting, I would note two things: - After the Johnstown flood and after the Chicago fire, the newswires were filled, for days, with stories of the struggles between looters and law-abiding folks and law enforcement agencies. After the situations had stabilized, investigations determined that the amount of looting (and the violence associated with it) had been grossly overreported. Now, this is not to claim that the situations then and now are identical, but before I start advocating that the Coast Guard be sent through the streets shooting everyone who holds a bag in their hands, I would like to see a clear statement from a responsible law enforcement agency that the situation is as bad as some are proclaiming. - **DtC** does have a point regarding _some_ of the looted items, in that they were effectively lost already, either to floods or to looting. (Against that, I would note that an insurance company is more likely to write a check for inventoried water-soakd stock than for claims of unidentified loss.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/73 "2005-08-31T16:40:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > But I’m only talking about the looting in stores, not personal households. Are you really asserting with a straight face that looters who find that no one bothers to prevent them from doing the former will refrain out of conscience from doing the latter? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/74 "2005-08-31T16:41:58Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > What difference does it make, morally or ethically? The stores would have to throw everything away anyway. So nothing is lost that wasn’t _already_ lost. None of it is salable merchandise. Like I said, it’s like taking stuff out a dumpster. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/75 "2005-08-31T16:42:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The stores would have to throw everything away anyway. So nothing is lost that wasn’t _already_ lost. None of it is salable merchandise. Like I said, it’s like taking stuff out a dumpster. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/76 "2005-08-31T16:43:27Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Are you really asserting with a straight face that looters who find that no one bothers to prevent them from doing the former will refrain out of conscience from doing the latter? :rolleyes: When did I assert that? But now that you ask, I think a lot of people would do just that. I would. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/77 "2005-08-31T16:44:38Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The stores would have to throw everything away anyway. So nothing is lost that wasn’t _already_ lost. None of it is salable merchandise. Like I said, it’s like taking stuff out a dumpster. As I said, that is not a decision for the looter to make, nor is it a decision for you to make. Do you suppose for one second a looter breaks into a store on top of a hill, looks around and thinks, “this stuff will be OK, I better leave it”? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/78 "2005-08-31T16:45:58Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > When did I assert that? > > But now that you ask, I think a lot of people would do just that. I would. You WOULD be looting the stores right now? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/79 "2005-08-31T16:46:02Z")
I keep pointing out that these people have to leave eventually. The waters are rising and authorities say they don’t want anyone in New Orleans for at least a month. It might as well be sooner rather than later. If these people are the king, gentle, victims of society like some people seem to suggest then why don’t they have enough sense try to get out of the city where they might have a chance to get supplies and help? I am sure that at least a few can snag a ride on a rescue helicopter. They don’t have any intention of leaving. Think about it. Why would you loot more stuff than you have ever had in your life and then leave it behind. That indicates an immediate and future problem right there. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389/80 "2005-08-31T16:46:58Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Cite? Cite for what? You don’t think the stores are going to write this shit off as a total loss? You think all that food still has any salable value. How are any of these stores going to recover any value from water damaged merchandise, especially if they can claim it as a total loss on their insurance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looting-in-new-orleans-gods-displeasure/319389.md?page=5)