# LORD OF THE RINGS book fans: Do you like poetry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 11, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266 "2011-01-11T21:32:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/21 "2011-01-12T18:05:06Z")
I voted for “I have read LotR all the way through & liked/loved it; I like older poetry but not contemporary.” I tend to skim the Professor’s poems unless it’s about something that particularly interests me (the rustic Hobbit poems about hot water and bathing etc. hold zero interest for me). Among other poets, I like Whitman, and the Romantic poets like Wordsworth, Shelley and Coleridge, best. Ogden Nash is good silly fun. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/22 "2011-01-12T22:19:33Z")
I liked the poetry in LotR enough to set some of it to music, and was disappointed then to find that Swann had beaten me to it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/23 "2011-01-12T23:50:59Z")
I love the LOTR novels, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, etc, and I despise poetry. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/24 "2011-01-13T18:48:20Z")
I love LotR, and I love poetry (particularly Eliot, W.H. Auden, and Dylan Thomas). I don’t like epic poetry that much except for _Beowulf_ and the _Divine Comedy_. I don’t like Tolkien’s poetry very much, although it does stick in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/25 "2011-01-13T18:52:43Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > I love LOTR and read it several times. I love poetry, just not Tolkien’s poetry, which I always skip when I reread it. Once was plenty. I reread much of his poetry. To me, the entire point of the first chapter of Book III is to set the mood for the elegy for Boromir. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/26 "2011-01-13T18:55:17Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I voted option one, but I should stipulate that, like other posters here, I didn’t actually like the poetry _in LOTR_ that much. I tend to think of the book as a long poem, mostly in prose but with with occasional digressions in verse. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/27 "2011-01-13T21:50:17Z")
I marked “like poetry”, without singling out classical vs. contemporary, but I do feel obligated to include the disclaimer that a lot of modern stuff that gets labeled “poetry”, I don’t think is poetry at all, it’s just prose with funny line breaks (which is, of course, completely independent of the question of whether it’s _good_). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/28 "2011-01-13T21:51:27Z")
Oh, by the way, I think it interesting that "I have read LOTR all the way through & disliked/hated it; I dislike poetry. " is currently leading "I have read LOTR all the way through & disliked/hated it; I dislike poetry. " by a three-vote margin. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/29 "2011-01-13T22:00:33Z")
I typically like poetry but it has to flow for me. I find reading Keats, for example, extremely laborious, but Yeats, Auden or Eliot are like music. One of the things I like BEST about LOTR is the prose style. Tolkien gave extreme detail to using different English vocabularies to express nuances in world view and character POVs. I will admit to eventually skimming over some of the 3-page-long chants in Elvish though. As well as the Bombadillo bombardments. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/30 "2011-01-13T22:05:25Z")
Hmmmm. I just realized that one of the reasons I dislike poetry is that it, well, puts too much on each word. The poetry I read in school was never direct, it was always like a riddle or some sort of critical thinking exercise (I haven’t felt the desire to explore the medium outside of school). Tolkien, on the other hand, is direct with his words, but sometimes far too wordy. As opposed to trying to describe grass in a line of fancy, indirect wording he spends a page going over it in every detail. 😃 Voted like Tolkien, dislike poetry, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/31 "2011-01-13T22:17:35Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Well, it’s better in the original Quenya. A moment’s thought should make it clear that none of the Red Book was written in Quenya. I think you meant _Sindarin_. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/32 "2011-01-14T01:55:20Z")
BTW, in my head the poems in LOTR are very distinctly _songs_ and they’ve all had a specific tune since the first time I read them, which was 25 years ago. A few of the longer ones, like _Earendil was a mariner_… are more like rhythmic, s musical chants. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/33 "2011-01-14T01:58:06Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > **Hmmmm. I just realized that one of the reasons I dislike poetry is that it, well, puts too much on each word.** The poetry I read in school was never direct, it was always like a riddle or some sort of critical thinking exercise (I haven’t felt the desire to explore the medium outside of school). Tolkien, on the other hand, is direct with his words, but sometimes far too wordy. As opposed to trying to describe grass in a line of fancy, indirect wording he spends a page going over it in every detail. 😃 > > Voted like Tolkien, dislike poetry, by the way. Can you expand on what you mean by the sentence I bolded? ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/34 "2011-01-14T03:53:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Can you expand on what you mean by the sentence I bolded? [Where the Sidewalk Ends by Shel Silverstein](http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets/shel_silverstein/poems/14836). Just having gone to look for poems gives me horrible flashbacks of teachers making us dissect poems bit by bit. No word is extraneous in a poem. We’re supposed to see meaning in _everything_. Metaphors abound, every word is thought of carefully to fit some sort of scheme or rhythm. _“Past the pits where the asphalt flowers grow”_ What does the author mean by the use of ‘asphalt flowers’? What is this a metaphor for? Why does the author use ‘pits’ instead of ‘meadow’ or ‘garden’ which is commonly used with flowers? Asphalt is by nature dead, how can these flowers grow? Etc etc etc. I grabbed a random passage from LotR I found online: _“How far can you bear me?” I said to Gwaihir. “Many leagues”, said he, “but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens.” “Then I must have a steed on land,” I said, “and a steed surpassingly swift, for I have never had such need for haste before.” “Then I will bear you to Edoras, where the Lord of Rohan sits in his halls,” he said, “for that is not very far off.” And I was glad, for in the Riddermark of Rohan the Rohirrim, the Horse-lords dwell, and there are no horses like those that are bred in that great vale between the Misty Mountains and the White._ Someone is getting a ride from Gwaihir to Edoras and commenting about how awesome Rohan is at horse breeding. There - there’s no fancy words or pattern to follow or special meaning to divine from it. We are being told in plain terms what is going on. They are pretty words, but straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/35 "2011-01-14T13:08:59Z")
I love Tolkien, and I love all sorts of poetry, from Beowulf in the original to e.e.cummings and LKJ dub to haiku. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/36 "2011-01-14T20:29:51Z")
> [@](#): > > What does the author mean by the use of ‘asphalt flowers’? What is this a metaphor for? Why does the author use ‘pits’ instead of ‘meadow’ or ‘garden’ which is commonly used with flowers? Asphalt is by nature dead, how can these flowers grow? Etc etc etc. That’s not a flaw of poetry; that’s a flaw of English teachers. I deeply regret that you apparently had pretty bad ones. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/37 "2011-01-14T21:07:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s not a flaw of poetry; that’s a flaw of English teachers. I deeply regret that you apparently had pretty bad ones. Yes, but Skald’s question was ‘do you like/dislike poetry’, not ‘do you think poetry is crap/not crap’. I admire poetry and those with the patience for it, but it isn’t my thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/38 "2011-01-15T00:05:46Z")
No, what I’m saying is that you don’t need patience for it, because nobody but bad English teachers and the students they torment actually go to all that work in analyzing it. You just let it flow. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/39 "2011-01-15T00:38:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > A moment’s thought should make it clear that none of the Red Book was written in Quenya. I think you meant _Sindarin_. Except for the Namárië, of course… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266/40 "2011-01-15T22:38:56Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > [Where the Sidewalk Ends by Shel Silverstein](http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets/shel_silverstein/poems/14836). Just having gone to look for poems gives me horrible flashbacks of teachers making us dissect poems bit by bit. No word is extraneous in a poem. We’re supposed to see meaning in _everything_. Metaphors abound, every word is thought of carefully to fit some sort of scheme or rhythm. > > _“Past the pits where the asphalt flowers grow”_ > > What does the author mean by the use of ‘asphalt flowers’? What is this a metaphor for? Why does the author use ‘pits’ instead of ‘meadow’ or ‘garden’ which is commonly used with flowers? Asphalt is by nature dead, how can these flowers grow? Etc etc etc. > > I grabbed a random passage from LotR I found online: > > _“How far can you bear me?” I said to Gwaihir. > “Many leagues”, said he, “but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens.” > “Then I must have a steed on land,” I said, “and a steed surpassingly swift, for I have never had such need for haste before.” > “Then I will bear you to Edoras, where the Lord of Rohan sits in his halls,” he said, “for that is not very far off.” > And I was glad, for in the Riddermark of Rohan the Rohirrim, the Horse-lords dwell, and there are no horses like those that are bred in that great vale between the Misty Mountains and the White._ > > Someone is getting a ride from Gwaihir to Edoras and commenting about how awesome Rohan is at horse breeding. There - there’s no fancy words or pattern to follow or special meaning to divine from it. We are being told in plain terms what is going on. They are pretty words, but straightforward. Like Chronos, I suspect you’ve been the victim of bad poetry teachers, just as persons who categorically dislike math are oftimes the victim of bad math teachers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-book-fans-do-you-like-poetry/567266.md?page=3)