# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/181 "2010-08-12T15:03:52Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > > Confirmed. > > > > My role pm meets special Ed’s handshake > > > > I’ll add 6 Y’s to the pile > > I’m only counting 5 Y’s, and I’ve gone over it a bunch of times to make sure. > > How many Us and Cs, **Wanderers**? defo 6 Y’s. I get 2 of each u’s and c’s ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/182 "2010-08-12T15:04:07Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role. > > NETA: Why in the world would you say this? (Partially a sincere question, since the last couple of days are the first time I’ve given any thought to Mafia strategy in three years, so there may be commonly accepted wheels within wheels for this kind of thing that I’m not seeing.) thank god you asked this because i was getting ready to ask the same durn question. fracking **pleo**. btw, i have a b in my pm. there are also yet to be disclosed other vowels and consonants. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/183 "2010-08-12T15:05:12Z")
neta: some were capitalized and some were not. wink wink nudge nudge. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/184 "2010-08-12T15:05:56Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role. > > Snipped \*\* I’m trying to decide what color this herring is. After I determine it’s color, I will be in a better place to tell you the size of it’s balls - of if it is just being a dick. \*\* I have a bad feeling on the entire handshake thing. I’m not sure what\*\* Pleonast \*\*is doing, but regardless of his actual role, I think his move above allows me to do the following. **Let’s see if I can’t shake here. FWIW.** : I have 11 O s in grand total of my last two lines of my Role PM. An even Dozen if you count the last three lines. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/185 "2010-08-12T15:06:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > **Is recruitment a possibility in this game?** > > No comment. Bummer. Anything less than confirmation of no recruitment means we must consider recruitment a possibility. However, recruitment is no worse than the scum having a godfather (scum who investigates as town). Once we’ve eliminated all the scum in the unconfirmed pool, we’ll have to start lynching “confirmed” players. > [@peekercpa](#): > > the problem is defining what “hurts the town”. I agree with **peeker**. Lynching players who do anti-town things should not be controversial. Who else are you going to lynch, the players who are helping the town? The difficulty lies in deciding what is anti-town. We should be arguing about what is anti-town (and it’s better to focus on specific examples in this game), rather than whether or not players who are working against the town should be lynched. > [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role. > > NETA: Why in the world would you say this? (Partially a sincere question, since the last couple of days are the first time I’ve given any thought to Mafia strategy in three years, so there may be commonly accepted wheels within wheels for this kind of thing that I’m not seeing.) It’s a game I like to play with the scum. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/186 "2010-08-12T15:09:04Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > I’m only counting 5 Y’s, and I’ve gone over it a bunch of times to make sure. > > > > How many Us and Cs, **Wanderers**? > > defo 6 Y’s. I get 2 of each u’s and c’s Okay, then we’re talking about different things. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/187 "2010-08-12T15:11:27Z")
At this point, I think I’m highly suspicious of peeker, specifically because he numbered his OpalCat reference as #4. That just ain’t right… On an ever so slightly serious note, I hate Night 1. Yes, it’s possible that someone will slip up and give something away, but the truth is, at this point we’re just swinging blindly. Nobody knows anything (except, of course, for the scum and the town power roles, but you know what I mean)… If you talk too much at this point, people suspect you, because you’re obviously trying to throw people off your scent. If you talk too little, people suspect you, because you’re trying to lie low to avoid detection. If you talk just the right amount, people suspect you because you’re doing things ‘too perfectly’. Which leads to posts like this one, wherein I need to say something so that everyone knows I’m here, but I really have absolutely nothing of worth to say, because there hasn’t been enough content for anyone to really form any good opinions. At least, there hasn’t been for me. And now I need to do some work, before the boss finds out what I’ve been doing for the last half hour… ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/188 "2010-08-12T15:12:24Z")
and i went back to count the numbers of each letter in my pm. just so we get the content right are we counting the last line, the last paragraph, just our wincon or the whole fucking thing? and if it’s the whole fucking thing do we include the subject matter in the count? just want to make sure we are all consistent so that the data established can be fed into **chronos** ’s program and establish some hard data points. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/189 "2010-08-12T15:13:26Z")
btw, i just thought of this. does anyone have numbers in their pm or just letters? that might prove to be highly significant. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/190 "2010-08-12T15:13:37Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role. > > Trying to catch up everything. Don’t you guys ever sleep? I hate this strategy, mostly because I don’t think understand it or the motivations that drive you to pursue it: for the fourth time that I’ve seen (willow,wrestler,mafia games game, now)? Perhaps if you could explain the finer points to me it would be enlightening and make me feel less stabby. Please indicate the pro’s and con’s with respect to the each following hypotheticals. 1. There is no town protective role 2. Scum have a cop 3. Scum have a watcher 4. Scum have a roleblocker 5. Scum have a strongman 6. Scum have a tracker ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/191 "2010-08-12T15:16:58Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > At this point, I think I’m highly suspicious of peeker, specifically because he numbered his OpalCat reference as #4. That just ain’t right… > **On an ever so slightly serious note, I hate Night 1**. \ ding ding ding, we have a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/192 "2010-08-12T15:18:11Z")
**Confirming**. > [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not sure whether this post was meant seriously or not, but while the time for a mass claim will eventually come, that time is probably not now. We can all probably make pretty good guesses about who the power roles are, and it’s not to our advantage for the Scum to know that. In principle, a name claim also has the potential to help Town, as well, possibly to a great degree, but **Mahaloth** of course already knows that, and has doubtless taken some sort of measures to limit the benefit Town can gain. Assuming that those who have roles that were more powerful canon-wise are going to have roles more powerful here is not a wise strategy. Galadriel could turn out to be vanilla while Samwise could be a vigilante. So guessing power roles off of names in a canon this large is pretty much useless. So I don’t really fear a name claim necessarily outing anyone, but I don’t really see what it’ll buy us either. As far as motivations, it’s been said before in this thread, but “Scum would never do that” should not figure into deciding whether or not an action is “pro-scum”. I mean, there are certain things scum would never do, like intentionally killing one of their own who wasn’t a traiter and didn’t have some uber-power that activated upon death, but a “scum would never do that” action can be very pro-scum if they think town will conclude that they’d never do that. It still comes down to motivation. Is there a pro-scum reason for it to be done? If not, it’s not scummy. (Slips are not motivation-based, so slips don’t enter into the discussion. Unless the slip is an intentional thing to distract from something else.) And you mentioned at one point that scum motivation can be found in anything at all. Well, true. Because frequently pro-town actions are either directly pro-scum as well or indirectly pro-scum in that they make the scum look pro-town. For example, as Wario in the SMB game, I created a confirmed block of 5 townies. Sinjin, who was up for lynch the second time (she was a Scotsman/Bulletproof type who had already been lynched once with no alignment reveal) was not in the confirmed block. She was scum, but started concocting all these pro-scum reasons for my actions. Of course, she naturally left out the pro-town reasons for everything I did as well, which I countered her with. In the end, her case had more holes than a seive, mainly because the pro-town implications of my actions overwhelmed the pro-scum implications. (Not to mention the fact that I had not been counterclaimed.) However, scum cannot exclusively do nothing but pro-town actions, because they will lose if they do. Eventually they have to play anti-town pro-scum actions. And as the overall picture begins to form, a distinctly pro-scum pattern can emerge. > [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Now we’ll wait until the standard role PM is posted publically. > > This pings me, a bit: Nobody in Town needs to know what the standard role PM looks like. When a standard role PM is posted publicly by the moderator, it’s for the benefit of those who want to be able to lie convincingly. I don’t think we’re allowed to start voting yet, and that’s really not enough for me to justify a vote (even an early Day 1 vote) anyway, but it is a ping. Revealing the vanilla PM is frequently SOP. It prevents the handshaking that Ed was trying to pull off. Even in cases where scum have access to cover roles, the publicly available PM will frequently be given out. And Ed’s been known to try handshaking in other games. So I’m not sure why this pings you. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > This is the first Mafia game I’ve played in quite a while, so I have a question for \*\*Chronos \*\*and **special ed** , who I gather are frequent participants here… > > Are you guys always this verbose? Yes. And depending how much time I have to devote to this, I’m frequently one of the more verbose as well. Throw in meeko and peeker and we have a large portion of high-frequency posters. If Roosh and Santo Rugger were around this thread would probably explode. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/193 "2010-08-12T15:18:24Z")
It’s Night Zero, yo. But yeah, I join on the antsiness. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/194 "2010-08-12T15:20:58Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role. > > > > Trying to catch up everything. Don’t you guys ever sleep? > > I hate this strategy, mostly because I don’t think understand it or the motivations that drive you to pursue it: for the fourth time that I’ve seen (willow,wrestler,mafia games game, now)? Perhaps if you could explain the finer points to me it would be enlightening and make me feel less stabby. > > Please indicate the pro’s and con’s with respect to the each following hypotheticals. > > 1. There is no town protective role > 2. Scum have a cop > 3. Scum have a watcher > 4. Scum have a roleblocker > 5. Scum have a strongman > 6. Scum have a tracker I’m not going to the scum’s homework for them. The point of my claim is to make scum do work. The town should ignore it, because it cannot be confirmed. The scum could ignore it too, but may find it hard to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/195 "2010-08-12T15:24:29Z")
This is certainly shaping up to be an interesting Day 1 since we’ve already had a claim as well as a denial of a win con. I’m not sure what to make of these yet but I wanted to keep them in the front of everyone’s mind for when voting opens up tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/196 "2010-08-12T15:27:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m not going to the scum’s homework for them. The point of my claim is to make scum do work. The town should ignore it, because it cannot be confirmed. The scum could ignore it too, but may find it hard to do so. \ oh jeebus pleebus **pleo**. he wasn’t asking you to do scum work. and for goodness sakes asking town to ignore your claim? blink ok, fuck **pleo** has claimed town power role so i can take him off my radar. what up with dat? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/197 "2010-08-12T15:28:20Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Assuming that those who have roles that were more powerful canon-wise are going to have roles more powerful here is not a wise strategy. It may not be a “wise strategy,” but I think it’s by far the safest assumption for us to make at this point. Especially considering Harry Potter Mafia. > [@](#): > > Galadriel could turn out to be vanilla while Samwise could be a vigilante. So guessing power roles off of names in a canon this large is pretty much useless. I mean, I guess I see where you’re coming from with this, but I think it’s only really likely to be true at the margins – which means that we need to assume that names risk conveying information about roles. Do you really think that Gandalf being a power role and Gandalf being vanilla are equally likely (assuming, y’know, that we all weren’t just given names of supporting characters in the canon to avoid this issue, which would be an interesting way to do it, I guess)? I certainly don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/198 "2010-08-12T15:34:07Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > > > I hate this strategy, mostly because I don’t think understand it or the motivations that drive you to pursue it: for the fourth time that I’ve seen (willow,wrestler,mafia games game, now)? Perhaps if you could explain the finer points to me it would be enlightening and make me feel less stabby. > > > > Please indicate the pro’s and con’s with respect to the each following hypotheticals. > > > > 1. There is no town protective role > > 2. Scum have a cop > > 3. Scum have a watcher > > 4. Scum have a roleblocker > > 5. Scum have a strongman > > 6. Scum have a tracker > > I’m not going to the scum’s homework for them. The point of my claim is to make scum do work. The town should ignore it, because it cannot be confirmed. The scum could ignore it too, but may find it hard to do so. Yeah that doesn’t make me less stabby. If you are actually town the onus is on you to play as part of this team. By refusing to answer the question I am left with the assumption that you did not consider any of those hypotheticals before the soft claim you’ve made. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/199 "2010-08-12T15:36:47Z")
There’s definitely 6 y’s in my PM. And no numbers. Oddly enough, the color of the role and the win condition don’t quite match up. The win condition clearly states **all** threats must be removed, but the color only mentions my chracter worried about Sauron and his minions. > [@Pleonast](#): > > It’s a game I like to play with the scum. But why do it? Obviously it’s WIFOM for them. It’s also WIFOM for us. If I were a scum, I’d ignore it (since I’ve found the best thing to with WIFOM regardless of alignment is to just leave it and do what you would do anyway), and as town I’m left just wondering why. 😕 It doesn’t add anything to the game or town’s strategy, so why bother? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/200 "2010-08-12T15:49:04Z")
Meeko, “sore thumb smoothing”? And I’m a she. And I wasn’t snuggling. Pleo is Pleo. It’s not worth worrying about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=11)