# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2001 "2010-08-30T21:11:40Z")
Why does my head hurt so much? Why is my tongue bleeding? Where did this huge dent in my wall come from? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2002 "2010-08-30T21:12:17Z")
Quoth **Snickers** : > [@](#): > > I think it’s reasonable to assume that Gadarene was our cop. Mahaloth stated that he “possessed several special objects,” but hasn’t told us what those objects were. And he’s posted since, so I’m assuming that he’s given us all the answers we’re like to get there - the question’s been asked twice, and still no answer. Bummer, that. Inventor-type roles often have some sort of information-gaining power, but they’re usually in addition to, rather than instead of, a dedicated cop. For comparison, Harry Potter and Screamers both had inventor-types with information powers (Sirius in HP; the general store owner in Screamers), but both games also had a full detective. At a guess, I’d say at this point that the Detective is probably Gandalf, whomever that is. In any event, though, it doesn’t really make much practical difference to us whether there’s a Detective or not, or what role-name e has. Right now, if we have one, e hasn’t claimed yet, so we have to just use good old-fashioned Scum-hunting methods. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2003 "2010-08-30T21:12:57Z")
I’m really not seeing this lynch of **ed** right now. Sure the handshake fiasco hasn’t worked the way he hoped and may have exposed some town power roles, but that doesn’t automatically make him Scum. The other arguments are even less convincing. Besides sitting back and relying on Town Power roles to win the game for us has never been my idea of a fun game of Mafia anyway (see Cecilvania!) I agree with \*\*Nanook’s \*\*assessment of **Snickers** ’ post and initially I was willing to chalk it up to Newbieness, but this is Day 3 and I think we have to hold players, even new ones, to a higher standard. I’m going to **vote Snickers** for the time being. We still have a lot of time left Today. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2004 "2010-08-30T21:20:17Z")
For the time being, I’m going back to my pre-Chip vote **Vote: Astral** For making and pushing a weak case against me when Suburban and I were in a tightly contested race. The reasoning contained logical and factual errors. Many of which Astral conceded to. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2005 "2010-08-30T21:25:31Z")
\*\*Unofficial \*\*\*\*Vote Count: Specialed(2): Astralrejection, Chronos, Astralrejection(2): Redskeezix, Specialed \*\*\*\* Pleonast(2): Meeko, Drainbead Snickers (2): Nanook, USCDiver * * * Meeko(1): Pleonast Not Voting: \*\* **Peeker** **OneandOnly** **Guiri** **Snickers** LittlePlasticNinja **Inner Stickler** Normal Phase **Oredigger** **MHaye** **HoopyFrood** **Cucuy** **Natlaw** ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2006 "2010-08-30T21:31:59Z")
Some comments on the vote record so far: -Ignoring **Oredigger** , **Cucuy** , **Nanook** , **RedSkeezix** for now for their burb votes D1 - **Astral** and **MHaye** extra attention for voting with special ed with burb D1 -D2 record doesn’t say much I think since no one in real lynch danger besides Chipa except perhaps ed. Astral did revote special ed, MHaye did not. I agree that I don’t see a specific reason for a scum to get told what Chronos claimed, so I’ll ignore him for now as well. Culling some of loud leaves me with: 5. **Astral Rejection** - There is a case against him for the vote/quick unvote D1 of Chronos 6. **OneandOnly** - **Peeker** what happened to your scum-slip against him end of Day one? 9. **Guiri** Nothing jumps out to me. 10. **Snickers** Had a defense of Chipa D2 has some votes for other reasons 13. **Inner Stickler** Another substite, not much here either 16. **MHaye** As far as I can remember he always uses the color names for factions. 17 **HoopyFrood** He’s in the game? I didn’t know the LotR featured Zombies, maybe he’s one of those specters 😉 23. **USCDiver** Drawing another blank here. So I’ll try to review the ones that don’t stand out to me. And try to keep up with the cases for the loud. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2007 "2010-08-30T21:36:07Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Now, we have a pretty big pool of people who matched **ed** ’s handshake, and a larger group who didn’t bother. How big is that first pool? I count just 4(.5) successful handshakes in addition to **Special Ed**. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > The failshake may not be such a fail after all at endgame. And then what does that say about **ed**? This is exactly where I am, I’m optimistic that we can turn this around to our advantage but have yet to see the light. So far we’ve given scum loads of information, whether they had the VT PM or not, but we’ve learned little to nothing. I don’t think a name claim is going to help much but there must be some way of making the whole handshake benefit Town. FWIW, add me to the bunch of players who don’t see **Pleo** ’s case against **MHaye**. If, at least, in the other game where he was scum and used a different name to describe scum without previous explanation (Nefarious Forces and Infiltrators) he’d actually used the new term in the scum thread before the main thread, there’d be some (probably weak) grounds for a case but there’s no mention in that scum thread of the alternative names for scum. In any case, SAHM is pretty demeaning and lends itself to a term used by Town to describe scum. > [@Snickers](#): > > I think it’s reasonable to assume that **Gadarene** was our cop. I think it’s reasonable to assume he was our inventor. Add the fact that he stated that he trusted **Telcontar** on Day 1, unless he had a Day power, this is not something a Cop would normally say. > [@Snickers](#): > > At this point, I don’t have good reads on anyone [sigh]. I know I voted **special ed** yesterday, but (and I know that this is going to sound really weaselly) I’m just not convinced he’s scum. Won’t someone post something obviously scummy to make it easier for everyone? 😉 You were “reluctantly” thinking that he was the scummiest of all when you placed your vote. What exactly happened between your vote and your latest post to make you change your mind on **Special Ed**? > [@Snickers](#): > > > [@special ed](#): > > > > But looking for Scum motivation in the voting is telling. > > > > If Chip is Scum, he needs some reason to unvote him and vote me. The planned claim could have been made all along. He can make up a weak reason to vote me (the 2nd place guy). > > > > And an investigator is an easier claim to fake in my opinion. A weak ass limited investigator even more so. > > I’m not certain his reason to vote you as the 2nd place guy was all that weak - it’s pretty easy to characterize the handshake as scum motivated. You out \*\*Chronos \*\*with a weird “gotcha” game as well as possibly identify other town power roles… It’s not too hard to see scum intentions behind all that. > > > [@special ed](#): > > > > Anyway, back to the task at hand. Can we lynch Chip? Do we have another calendar day to go? > > Hmmm. I think you’re just speaking off the cuff here (or maybe due to frustration over the course of this Day, which I agree with), but one could also read this as wanting \*\*Chip \*\*dead. > > And the two roles thing. I don’t know what do to with that. Is it possible that \*\*Mahaloth \*\*screwed up and accidently sent you something meant for someone else, like you’ve alluded? Sure. Is there a far simpler reason why you might be in possession of two roles? Occam’s razor says yep. But (conveniently?) you can’t say any more about it. > > Sorry, **ed**. I’m reluctantly thinking that right now, you look the scummiest of the lot. > Vote special ed. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2008 "2010-08-30T21:43:26Z")
“Inventor type?” I’m not familiar with that - is it a common role? I’ve never heard of it before. Why do I assume **Gadarene** (as Aragorn) was a detective? It seems to me to be consistent with canon - after Pippin got the palantir (and fell sway to its charms), Aragorn took it from him and spent a long, exhausing night wresting it to his will. While most looking into it would’ve been corrupted, sent into despair, or tricked into revealing key information, Aragorn was able to subdue those nefarious schemes through strength of will and see what he wished to (instead of what whoever else wished to reveal). I see this as consistent with an investigator; I can easily be mistaken. (Lord knows I have been in this game before, esp with the Treebeard/Tom Bombadil mixup.) Nanook’s probably right that **Mahaloth** would’ve probably called Gadarene a detective if he was one - he’s been good so far about clearly revealing people’s roles. But he’s also so far avoided telling us what Aragorn’s special objects were and has ordered others to conceal information, so there is that. Yeah, I know I’m weaselling on the **ed** thing, and I’m sorry for that. As my first game, I’m probably overly leery of mislynching someone. I’m really trying to follow the advice given in this game (namely, if you think someone is scum, vote for them. If you don’t, don’t.). And I’m not yet convinced that **ed** is scum. I wasn’t yesterDay either, but I voted for him because I perceived him as the scummiest so far. I’m feeling “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” - I couldn’t not vote for anyone, because that would be seen as lurking, but voting for **ed** looks like I’m a bandwagon jumper. It’s not a good explanation, but it’s the best I have. Would it have been scummier for me to have jumped on the **ed** bandwagon earlier today instead of making the statements that I did? I dunno. Bah. I’m not explaining myself well. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2009 "2010-08-30T21:50:41Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Yeah, I know I’m weaselling on the **ed** thing, and I’m sorry for that. As my first game, I’m probably overly leery of mislynching someone. I’m really trying to follow the advice given in this game (namely, if you think someone is scum, vote for them. If you don’t, don’t.). And I’m not yet convinced that **ed** is scum. I wasn’t yesterDay either, but I voted for him because I perceived him as the scummiest so far. I’m feeling “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” - I couldn’t not vote for anyone, because that would be seen as lurking, but voting for **ed** looks like I’m a bandwagon jumper. It’s not a good explanation, but it’s the best I have. Would it have been scummier for me to have jumped on the **ed** bandwagon earlier today instead of making the statements that I did? I dunno. > > Bah. I’m not explaining myself well. No, because now it appears that your primary concern isn’t with finding the Scum but with how you will look to everyone else. And see, Scum worry about that. A lot Regarding Aragorn as Detective: from canon, with his healing powers wouldn’t it make more sense for him to be a doctor? And, from canon, how could Legolas be a protector? With his elven senses, wouldn’t he make more sense as a detective? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2010 "2010-08-30T21:54:51Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > “Inventor type?” I’m not familiar with that - is it a common role? I’ve never heard of it before. go here: [http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf](http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf) Click around, it’s there somewhere. [mafiagameswiki.com](http://mafiagameswiki.com) has no description of Inventor or Jack of all trades (which are the same role in essence) ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2011 "2010-08-30T22:01:10Z")
> [@Guiri](#): > > You were “reluctantly” thinking that he was the scummiest of all when you placed your vote. What exactly happened between your vote and your latest post to make you change your mind on Special Ed? I placed my vote on **ed** yesterday because I saw him as the scummiest so far, not that I was convinced that he was scum. (I didn’t think not voting was really a good idea.) I can see scum motivations behind his handshake fail, but I also see how it was a well-intentioned town move gone wrong. And based on **ed** ’s previous explanations, and his further explanation toDay in post #1955, I’m really inclined towards the latter. [quote=special ed] No, because now it appears that your primary concern isn’t with finding the Scum but with how you will look to everyone else. And see, Scum worry about that. A lot[\quote] True. I’ll cut that nonsense out toot-sweet. > [@special ed](#): > > Regarding Aragorn as Detective: from canon, with his healing powers wouldn’t it make more sense for him to be a doctor? Maybe? While I clearly remember the palantir thing with Aragorn, I’m not recalling his healing powers (except for his helping Frodo with the stab wound, but didn’t he have to go to Elrond for full healing?). Wait - it’s “the hands of a king are healing hands” or whatever, right? Yeah, it’s coming back. Slowly. Clearly, the struggle with the palantir was more memorable to me than the houses of healing. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2012 "2010-08-30T22:03:08Z")
Dammit! Trying that second half again. Preview twice, post once - learn it live it love it. > [@special ed](#): > > No, because now it appears that your primary concern isn’t with finding the Scum but with how you will look to everyone else. > > And see, Scum worry about that. A lot True. I’ll cut that nonsense out toot-sweet. > [@special ed](#): > > Regarding Aragorn as Detective: from canon, with his healing powers wouldn’t it make more sense for him to be a doctor? Maybe? While I clearly remember the palantir thing with Aragorn, I’m not recalling his healing powers (except for his helping Frodo with the stab wound, but didn’t he have to go to Elrond for full healing?). Wait - it’s “the hands of a king are healing hands” or whatever, right? Yeah, it’s coming back. Slowly. Clearly, the struggle with the palantir was more memorable to me than the houses of healing. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2013 "2010-08-30T22:08:47Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Maybe? While I clearly remember the palantir thing with Aragorn, I’m not recalling his healing powers (except for his helping Frodo with the stab wound, but didn’t he have to go to Elrond for full healing?). Wait - it’s “the hands of a king are healing hands” or whatever, right? Yeah, it’s coming back. Slowly. Clearly, the struggle with the palantir was more memorable to me than the houses of healing. It’s much more clear in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2014 "2010-08-30T22:08:50Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Snickers](#): > > > > “Inventor type?” I’m not familiar with that - is it a common role? I’ve never heard of it before. > > go here: > > [http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf](http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf) > > Click around, it’s there somewhere. > > [mafiagameswiki.com](http://mafiagameswiki.com) has no description of Inventor or Jack of all trades (which are the same role in essence) That helps, a ton. (I’m most familiar with MafaGamesWiki - need more resources.) Yes, according to those definitions, Aragorn’s definitely a better fit with the Inventor/Jack of all trades roles. What with the healing and the seeing and the dead raising and all. The man can’t be categorized! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2015 "2010-08-30T22:18:17Z")
Quoth **Snickers** : > [@](#): > > “Inventor type?” I’m not familiar with that - is it a common role? I’ve never heard of it before. An inventor typically has a wide variety of different powers, but they’re each only usable once, or maybe twice. It’s hard to say much about them in general, because it depends so much on what specific powers they have. Quoth **special ed** : > [@](#): > > Regarding Aragorn as Detective: from canon, with his healing powers wouldn’t it make more sense for him to be a doctor? And, from canon, how could Legolas be a protector? With his elven senses, wouldn’t he make more sense as a detective? A priori, maybe, but we now know that Legolas was, in fact, the Doctor-equivalent, and Aragorn wasn’t. For that matter, it’s kind of odd, when you think about it, that the protector-role in Mafia games is usually referred to as a “doctor”: Given the choice, I’d much prefer a guy who prevented me from getting shot, to one who could patch up the wound. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2016 "2010-08-30T22:25:37Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > In other words, you seemed to be posing peeker-like with a specific purpose.[/oog] \ ding ding ding we have a winner. anyone who suggests that i am spamming this thread can come right out and say so ( **pleo** ). i don’t mind. crud **drain** wants to fuck me so that is a net gain on my end. discussion is the wmd of town. some folks don’t like it. i am hunting scum. and the only way i can do that is by looking at posts. and some may seem innocuous but maybe not. woot woot this is a good one folks, thanks. certain folks want to look at vote records. i just want to see what people post. that gives me harder data points (me personally). ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2017 "2010-08-30T22:30:20Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I understand you and disagree. I think collective terms have and are used on secret boards. Why? Do you have experience with such (in past games or something)? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2018 "2010-08-30T22:47:09Z")
ok. to heck with it. i need to put my money where my mouth is. **vote hoopy** blah blah blah blah blah. and on preview, i and didn’t hose the coloring because i actually looked at what i was posting. woot woot. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2019 "2010-08-30T23:08:25Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Specialed(2): Astralrejection, Chronos, Astralrejection(2): Redskeezix, Specialed Pleonast(2): Meeko, Drainbead Snickers (2): Nanook, USCDiver Meeko(1): Pleonast Hoopy(1): Peeker Day ends Thursday at Noon Eastern.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2020 "2010-08-30T23:11:54Z")
This is the most even spread of voting we’ve had all game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=102)