# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2081 "2010-09-01T21:33:02Z")
Interesting. Astral unvotes me to put himself into further danger of being lynched. Then another vote comes in for me. Leaving open the strong possibility that Astral would switch back to me causing my lynch. Just keep this in mind if I get lynched. It’s been an awful couple of days at work. New students with IEPs showing up. And stifling heat and humidity in the building. I’ll check back before we celebrate Inner’s birthday with a good old fashioned lynching. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2082 "2010-09-01T22:00:32Z")
Quoth **ed** : > [@](#): > > Interesting. Astral unvotes me to put himself into further danger of being lynched. > > Then another vote comes in for me. > > Leaving open the strong possibility that Astral would switch back to me causing my lynch. > > Just keep this in mind if I get lynched. Keep what in mind, that **Astral** is putting making a case ahead of his own self-preservation? That if people switch votes to you, you’ll end up getting lynched? I can’t see what you’re trying to imply, here. It looks like you’re saying that **Astral** and **Natlaw** are working in concert to get you killed, but if that were the case, why the need for **Astral** to unvote you first? And if one of the pair turns up Town, does whatever we’re supposed to keep in mind apply to the other one? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2083 "2010-09-01T22:04:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **ed** : > > > [@](#): > > > > Interesting. Astral unvotes me to put himself into further danger of being lynched. > > > > Then another vote comes in for me. > > > > Leaving open the strong possibility that Astral would switch back to me causing my lynch. > > > > Just keep this in mind if I get lynched. > > Keep what in mind, that **Astral** is putting making a case ahead of his own self-preservation? That if people switch votes to you, you’ll end up getting lynched? I can’t see what you’re trying to imply, here. It looks like you’re saying that **Astral** and **Natlaw** are working in concert to get you killed, but if that were the case, why the need for **Astral** to unvote you first? And if one of the pair turns up Town, does whatever we’re supposed to keep in mind apply to the other one? It just means to think. Keep thinking. Or, in some cases, start thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2084 "2010-09-01T23:00:11Z")
What a revolutionary idea! It had never occurred to me to _think_ about this game before! ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2085 "2010-09-01T23:00:31Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > Guiri - [you were scum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12833296&postcount=1438) in Mahaloth’s last game - did the poilyjuice potion include a role PM (I don’t remember if it was just a name or not)? Yes, I posted it earlier in [#341](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12797831&postcount=341), you must have skimmed that post. I’ve been slow to get a vote down toDay as I’ve been going back and forth between **Special Ed** and **Astral**. I’ve expressed suspicions of both but cannot reconcile the fact that I see scum motivations in their actions with the adversarial play between them. If they’re bussing each other, the Oscar goes to **Astral**. If I’m forced to choose which of the two I think is scummiest, it has to be **Special Ed** again and, as **Natlaw** seemed to infer, I’m a little obsessed with the whole handshaking thing. I don’t think I’m going to make much progress in this game until I can get some closure on his real intentions with the handshake attempt. While I can see the Town motivation for the initial attempt, his actions afterwards with **Chronos** , his encouragement of further handshaking, his forbidden “action” exactly when he was tied for the lynch, and his attempt to cover up his actions do not match up. **Astral** ’s initial vote on **USC** based on an argument by a player he was suspicious of, implying **Special Ed** was Town helping scum and his subsequent suggestions to leave **Suburban** alive are potentially scum motivated but I can’t explain that unvote based on weird logic. I realise that I’ve put myself into a corner, I think both are scummy but cannot be on the same team and so if one flips Town, the other must be scum. But, excluding 3rd parties, the alternative is that they’re both Town and I’m not seeing that. I am strongly inclined to avoid the situation completely and vote **Natlaw** - I really dislike the idea that another player has simply quoted my reasons from Day 1 for suspecting another player and added a “me too” comment at the end before placing a vote - but we cannot let toDay’s lynch be decided by just 4 votes. If it’s a race between **Special Ed** and **Astral** : **Vote Special Ed** ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2086 "2010-09-01T23:22:43Z")
I’ve ben see-sawing on the question of voting for Ed again all Day. My reasoning remains basically the same as it was on Day 1; that Ed, in the way he crafted the handshake attempt, isolated a few Town power roles, raising the chance that SAHM eliminate them early. I contend that this was reasonably foreseeable to an experienced player, thus a Town-aligned Ed would not have done it that way. I’m rereading the thread right now. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2087 "2010-09-02T00:03:07Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@Natlaw](#): > > > > Guiri - [you were scum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12833296&postcount=1438) in Mahaloth’s last game - did the poilyjuice potion include a role PM (I don’t remember if it was just a name or not)? > > Yes, I posted it earlier in [#341](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12797831&postcount=341), you must have skimmed that post. > > I’ve been slow to get a vote down toDay as I’ve been going back and forth between **Special Ed** and **Astral**. I’ve expressed suspicions of both but cannot reconcile the fact that I see scum motivations in their actions with the adversarial play between them. If they’re bussing each other, the Oscar goes to **Astral**. > > If I’m forced to choose which of the two I think is scummiest, it has to be **Special Ed** again and, as **Natlaw** seemed to infer, I’m a little obsessed with the whole handshaking thing. I don’t think I’m going to make much progress in this game until I can get some closure on his real intentions with the handshake attempt. While I can see the Town motivation for the initial attempt, his actions afterwards with **Chronos** , his encouragement of further handshaking, his forbidden “action” exactly when he was tied for the lynch, and his attempt to cover up his actions do not match up. > > **Astral** ’s initial vote on **USC** based on an argument by a player he was suspicious of, implying **Special Ed** was Town helping scum and his subsequent suggestions to leave **Suburban** alive are potentially scum motivated but I can’t explain that unvote based on weird logic. > > I realise that I’ve put myself into a corner, I think both are scummy but cannot be on the same team and so if one flips Town, the other must be scum. But, excluding 3rd parties, the alternative is that they’re both Town and I’m not seeing that. > > I am strongly inclined to avoid the situation completely and vote **Natlaw** - I really dislike the idea that another player has simply quoted my reasons from Day 1 for suspecting another player and added a “me too” comment at the end before placing a vote - but we cannot let toDay’s lynch be decided by just 4 votes. If it’s a race between **Special Ed** and **Astral** : > > **Vote Special Ed** In general, I dislike “one of them must be Scum” arguments because it’s an easy way for Scum to train one mislynch onto another. However, I’m not going to argue any further against my lynch. I’m hopeful that it will provide useful information from the discussion we’ve already had. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2088 "2010-09-02T00:04:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What a revolutionary idea! It had never occurred to me to _think_ about this game before! I know. It’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2089 "2010-09-02T00:10:49Z")
@ **Guiri** > [@](#): > > implying Special Ed was Town helping scum and his subsequent suggestions to leave Suburban alive are potentially scum motivated If I could correct you on these two points: you’re making the same mistakes Drain Bead made. At no point do I ever suggest ed is town. My hypothetical posits a third-party Ed. Here are the posts in question: > [@special\_ed](#): > > So, what, wait..now handing the Scum the Vanilla Role PM is bad? We’ve already determined that handshaking wasn’t going to happen. What exactly is the value of having that information hidden? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Yes, it’s bad. Assuming you’re scum, you already had it anyway. But by posting it, you’re trying to convince us that you’re vanilla town. Or you could be a third faction that happens to have the PM. Your action did not help the town in any way right now{…} He later agrees that his actions did not help town. As for suggesting Suburban Plankton live, you’re ignoring that I also suggested we kill him today. One day to get results, or if we were feeling lucky, two. I wanted him dead the same as anybody else, I just disagreed about when. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2090 "2010-09-02T00:18:28Z")
Wait a second. Nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2091 "2010-09-02T00:22:46Z")
Had a problem with my vote count in previous post. Here it is now: \*\*Vote Count: Specialed(4): Chronos, Doctorwho, Natlaw, Guiri Astralrejection(4): Redskeezix, Specialed, Oneandonly, Drainbead Pleonast(1): Meeko Snickers (2): Nanook, USCDiver Hoopy(1): Peeker Peeker(2): Hoopy, Pleonast Drainbead(1): Astralrejection\*\* ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2092 "2010-09-02T00:23:08Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wait a second. Nevermind What was that about? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2093 "2010-09-02T00:45:55Z")
he fucking edited it. modkill his ass now. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2094 "2010-09-02T01:13:30Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > he fucking edited it. modkill his ass now. I think he accidentally posted the lynch color early and let everyone know that… I am not Glorfindel. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2095 "2010-09-02T01:15:08Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > Wait a second. Nevermind > > What was that about? The post count was wrong, so I deleted it while I tried to figure out my error. The edit function would time out before I resolved it. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2096 "2010-09-02T01:39:17Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > > For now I’m going to **[colorblue]vote: Chipacabra**[/color] > > > > I’ll no doubt end up on one of our leaders, but I can’t let this go unnoticed right now. > > > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > > It’s dichotomous because my waffling wasn’t on Chipicabra. I voted him without hesitation on Day 1. > > \ > > this is without reservation? Yes. Hesitation means I’m wary about voting Chip. I wasn’t wary about voting him at all. However, my case _was_ weak. So was my case on Chronos earlier. Most Day 1 cases are. Weak case != hesitation. By the time things really got rolling at the end, I had decided I wasn’t voting Ed because I viewed the case on him the weakest of all. So I either vote the claimed power role with a strong case against him or vote the weak case I’ve already got my vote on. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2097 "2010-09-02T01:49:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > he fucking edited it. modkill his ass now. > > I think he accidentally posted the lynch color early and let everyone know that… > > I am not Glorfindel. Actually, he’d be letting everyone know that **Astral** is not Glorfindel right now. I just went back and checked the rules for ties, and I think seeing as he was the first to reach 4 votes, he’s in the lead. I probably won’t have time to post much before the Day is over. **Astral** , if you live, I promise I will link back to every post I used in my post-spoiler synopsis, and quote the exact language you were using that caused me to be suspicious. I just didn’t have time to do it and still actually get the WoW done. I started out the post linking and got about halfway through Day One before I just said fuck it and erased them all, because I was running out of time. If you live toDay, Tomorrow I will make sure you know exactly what I was referring to in every point I made. I just can’t get it done now. I get very little computer time during the day–most of my posting is done from an iPhone. Doing WoWs on an iPhone is imfuckingpossible, so I have to do them at work, and depending on how busy my day is, that can be problematic. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2098 "2010-09-02T01:52:37Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > this is without reservation? Yes. Hesitation means I’m wary about voting Chip. I wasn’t wary about voting him at all. . [/QUOTE] \ **Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2099 "2010-09-02T02:01:19Z") > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > \ > > > > this is without reservation? > > Yes. > > Hesitation means I’m wary about voting Chip. I wasn’t wary about voting him at all. However, my case _was_ weak. So was my case on Chronos earlier. i fucked up that last post but in the interest of not editing which i consider to be poor play let me try again. **aiiiieeeeeee** the other hole in the wall **ed** belongs to me. and i fucking hope you have a piss pot of advil laying around now that aragorn is dead and shit. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2100 "2010-09-02T02:12:40Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I probably won’t have time to post much before the Day is over. **Astral** , if you live, I promise I will link back to every post I used in my post-spoiler synopsis, and quote the exact language you were using that caused me to be suspicious. I just didn’t have time to do it and still actually get the WoW done. You mean like this? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I can understand where Meeko is coming from. This has been a fairly intimidating game from my perspective too, especially given that it’s my first game! I’ll admit I’ve had similar thoughts to his, and I’ve frequently been lost. > > Unlike Meeko, however, I’m really digging it. I came into this game expecting it to be a challenge, and you guys are far surpassing my expectations. As loathe as I am to give him a pass for an unnecessary claim, I can understand the frustration that made him post it. So, for now, it’s a null tell to me. > > I’ve been thinking about Chip, and it’s almost certain that he’s gonna swing. I can see the cases for his lynching, and they’re solid. But I can’t get over the suspicion that he’s a town player who made a bunch of careless statements. I’m about 80% sure he’s scum, which would be good enough, but I have a scummier target in mind. > > So where does this leave me? I’m going to **vote special ed.** I believe Telcontar’s death was a direct result of his handshaking, and I believe that his handshaking was created to fish out town power roles. I’m assuming that scum had a sample of the vanilla PM, and that he got exactly what he wanted. > > Two things cement this in my mind toDay. > > 1. As I’ve mentioned before, calling out Chronos was a scummy move. If **special ed** is town, I can’t suss out a reason for the semantic argument with somebody who had given the correct (and direct) answer to ed’s question. > 2. I can’t accept his stated reason for screwing up the handshake. He admits he did it wrong, and offered up what he should have done instead. Except this isn’t his first attempt at handshaking; he made a big deal about how he’d done it **four times before.** I can’t understand his mistake in that light. That’s not too bad of a post. Maybe a little long, but at least I make a cogent post explaining my thoughts about the Day. Time to compress it for a WoW! > [@](#): > > 1720 – The game is intimidating. Thinks that Chip is probably Scum and is definitely going to swing based on the number of votes. Thinks ed is scummier than Chip and votes for him. Calling out Chronos was scummy, screwing up the handshake when he’d done it 4 times before was scummy. That’s a pretty good synopsis. You write “Thinks ed is scummier than Chip and votes for him.” That seems like a reasonable course of action. Time to share your thoughts with everybody! > [@](#): > > Tells Natlaw that he shouldn’t be voting for someone else just because the other candidate is the clear lynch leader in 775, then does that himself the next Day in 1720, when Chip is the clear lynch leader and he votes ed, and points out that his vote won’t make a difference because Chip will swing, but he’s still 80% sure Chip is Scum. Oh. Well, I guess making me sound like a hedging, waffling vote-changer was the next best thing to being honest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=106)