# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2101 "2010-09-02T02:16:04Z")
**Drain** , do you think that \*\*ed \*\* is saying that **Astral** ’s not Glorfindel or that he ( **ed** ) isn’t Glorfindel? I’m reading that the opposite way that you are - that **ed** ’s saying he mistakenly received the Glorfindel cover role meant for **Astral**. Thus, of the two that are tied for vote leader right now, **ed** ’s town and **Astral** ’s scum. Of course, it could simply be self-preservation, too. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2102 "2010-09-02T02:16:27Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Doing WoWs on an iPhone is imfuckingpossible… Not to clutter the thread, but amen to this. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2103 "2010-09-02T02:25:55Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > > Yes. > > > > Hesitation means I’m wary about voting Chip. I wasn’t wary about voting him at all. However, my case _was_ weak. So was my case on Chronos earlier. > > i fucked up that last post but in the interest of not editing which i consider to be poor play let me try again. > > **aiiiieeeeeee** > > the other hole in the wall **ed** belongs to me. and i fucking hope you have a piss pot of advil laying around now that aragorn is dead and shit. Ya know what? I’m finished trying to explain it since all you seem to be interested in is playing ridiculous little semantic games anyway. There is hesitation in every vote a townie puts out. Because we can’t be sure anyone we vote for is scum. (Barring power role relevations, obviously. But those can be messed with, so even then there’s a bit of question.) However, there are varying levels. I’ve pointed out the differences between Chip’s actions and mine. You choose to ignore them, you choose to say they are the same, though I’ve presented my case in multiple ways why they aren’t the same. At this point, I’m accepting that you are going to just vote for me regardless. Especially since you neither voted for no defended Chip yesterDay, in spite of what was a fairly robust case against him. Instead, you essentially took a safe route by being ambivalent toward him and voting someone who wasn’t in any danger of being lynched anyway, so you wouldn’t have to have accountability for your vote. Or are you going to claim that your case against me is better than the voting pattern of Chipicabra that put Ed into the lead against a now known scum? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2104 "2010-09-02T02:48:05Z")
uh, **hoopy** i think **chip** flipped town. so i have no clue why you think looking at his/her record would infer anything other than town. maybe misguided but certainly not scum motivated. or would you care to make it differrently? i mean maybe the folks that voted for him/her as opposed to **ed** could come under some scrutiny but i don’t even see that. and yeh, sorry **hoopy** there was a pretty robust case on townie **chip**. i just chose not to accept the bs. btw, i am so glad to see you back participating again. it’s time to sharpen our word swords and have some fun. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2105 "2010-09-02T03:01:18Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > uh, **hoopy** i think **chip** flipped town. so i have no clue why you think looking at his/her record would infer anything other than town. maybe misguided but certainly not scum motivated. or would you care to make it differrently? i mean maybe the folks that voted for him/her as opposed to **ed** could come under some scrutiny but i don’t even see that. > > and yeh, sorry **hoopy** there was a pretty robust case on townie **chip**. i just chose not to accept the bs. > > btw, i am so glad to see you back participating again. it’s time to sharpen our word swords and have some fun. I’m referring to Day 2, before Chip flipped. The same Day you started voting me. And if you thought the case on Chip was BS that Day, why did you not defend him? (her?) And don’t think I’m back to participating any extra; I still won’t be on much during the daytime. It also means I won’t be around for Day end to change my vote. But since my preferred candidate right now (i.e. you) is unlikely to be lynched at this point, there’s no reason for me to keep my vote here. Understand, I’ll likely place it on you first thing toMorrow. **unvote** **vote Astral** Not really much to add that hasn’t been said already. I think the case against Astral is stronger than the one against Ed. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2106 "2010-09-02T03:06:35Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > **Drain** , do you think that \*\*ed \*\* is saying that **Astral** ’s not Glorfindel or that he ( **ed** ) isn’t Glorfindel? I’m reading that the opposite way that you are - that **ed** ’s saying he mistakenly received the Glorfindel cover role meant for **Astral**. Thus, of the two that are tied for vote leader right now, **ed** ’s town and **Astral** ’s scum. > > Of course, it could simply be self-preservation, too. I’m pretty sure Ed’s comment is a joke. He’s been saying for several days (and Days) that he won’t trust anyone named Glorfindel. Ed was just riffing on Maha’s editing. As for me, I think the case on Astral is pretty good. His reply to drain’s post is particularly unconvincing. I don’t find the explanations and rebuttals to really sway me. **Vote Astral** ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2107 "2010-09-02T03:10:35Z")
What is the delay in Astral claiming (aka did I miss something)? I’m confused. I feel like if he was town, he’d have claimed by now. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2108 "2010-09-02T03:17:04Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Specialed(4): Chronos, Doctorwho, Natlaw, Guiri Astralrejection(6): Redskeezix, Specialed, Oneandonly, Drainbead, Hoopy, Innerstickler Pleonast(1): Meeko Snickers (2): Nanook, USCDiver Hoopy(1): Peeker Peeker(1): Pleonast Drainbead(1): Astralrejection\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2109 "2010-09-02T03:24:42Z")
Oof. I’ve read and re-read with a bunch of different lines of analysis, and I think I broke my brain. Ouch. **Vote Pleonast**. Why? [ul] [li] The fellowship/not idea. IMO, members of the fellowship are more likely to be power roles than not ( **Telecontar** as Legolas and **Gadarene** as Aragorn bear this out, **Chronos** as Eowyn does not, but I don’t know whether a “half-mason” counts as a power role), so if Townies identify themselves as fellowship, it gives scum a smaller pool to shoot in. The more I think about it, the more advantageous a fellowship claim is to scum, not town.[/li] [li] Dismisses consistency claim idea as a loser, with no risk for scum and only risk for scum. I don’t know that it’s a good idea, but I do think that a “my alignment is consistent with my role” claim gives less information than a fellowship claim. Wait - I don’t think I’m saying that right. A consistency claim tells town less than a fellowship claim, but it also denies a bunch of possible power roles to scum (unlike the fellowship claim). It does possibly give scum more of an opportunity to hide than a fellowship claim, true. He also says that it’ll help scum identify borderline roles or roles that are not consistent - I don’t know that this makes sense (won’t only third party roles be the inconsistent ones? Why would this out town?) I just see a consistency claim as less anti-town than a fellowship claim. And **Pleo** ’s for a fellowship claim, yet against a consistency claim. (This is also consistent with his “high risk, high reward” preference, though).[/li] [li] Says that if we’re going to claim, maybe we should just name claim because this forces scum to take risks. However, if scum are given cover roles (as has happened in previous **Mahaloth** games; Harry Potter recently), does this really make them take risks? My thinking here is that **Mahaloth** ’s cover roles would stand up to as much scrutiny as **Chip** ’s Treebeard role, **Meeko** ’s claimed Celeborn role, even **ed** ’s claimed Faramir and **peeker** ’s claimed Boromir roles. (Unless the role is Glorfindel, I suppose.)[/li][li] The **MHaye** acronym thing. Granted, **MHaye** might be poking **Pleonast** with his continued use of the acronym, but I just don’t think the scum need a term to refer to themselves on their secret board. [/li] It gets weirder in post #1973. He says: > [@Pleonast](#): > > Look in this thread. Players use the term “town”. Do you think that none of the players using that term are town? Because by saying the scum will never say “scum”, you’re also implying town would never say “town”. Collective terms are used by both sides for both sides; it’s that simple. But **Drain** ’s not saying that it’s weird that the scum would refer to themselves on their own board as “scum.” **Drain** (and others) is saying it’s weird that they’d refer to themselves on their own board with an entirely new term that they’d have to come up with (like SAHM) or even at all. It’s just a really bizarre argument. And **Pleo** ’s the only one that believes he has reason to believe that scum have or are using such third person terms on their boards. In his favor, though, **MHaye** proposed a couple of other terms to use as alternates to SAHMs, (even one from **Mahaloth** ’s post to open the game) then abandoned them. [li] His refusal to see how requests for information from him because of his claim have a town motivation. Sure, there’s no promise of future information inherent in a town power role claim, but to continue to insist that townies shouldn’t expect some sort of data from someone making that claim is disingenuous at best.[/li] [li] His strange vote switch in post #2065. He switches his vote because one of his other leading favorites has garnered a vote from someone else (so he jumps on that bus), but he doesn’t think that this new guy is the scummiest on his list. I don’t get this and can’t see a town motivation for it.[/li] [li] His late vote switch to **Plankton** on Day 1 when it was obvious **Plankton** would swing.[/li] [li] The multi-vote thing. OK, this is weak, but it’s really not adding anything to the discussion.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2110 "2010-09-02T03:26:02Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m pretty sure Ed’s comment is a joke. He’s been saying for several days (and Days) that he won’t trust anyone named Glorfindel. Ed was just riffing on Maha’s editing. Ah. Gottit. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2111 "2010-09-02T03:28:07Z")
Oops. In my post voting for **Pleonast** , I notice an error in the second bullet - it should read “and only risk for town” at the end of that first sentence. Sorry. I proofread, I swear! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2112 "2010-09-02T04:53:41Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Specialed(4): Chronos, Doctorwho, Natlaw, Guiri Astralrejection(6): Redskeezix, Specialed, Oneandonly, Drainbead, Hoopy, Innerstickler Pleonast(2): Meeko, Snickers Snickers (2): Nanook, USCDiver Hoopy(1): Peeker Peeker(1): Pleonast Drainbead(1): Astralrejection No lynch: Mhaye, Cucuy\*\* Correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2113 "2010-09-02T06:23:09Z")
Gotta go to work but please unvote **Astral** - he is just a hobbit. I don’t think a full claims will help here but I strongly advise keeping the names hidden (for the reason mentioned earlier against a mass name claim). I hope to get back before Dusk. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2114 "2010-09-02T06:30:51Z")
**Natlaw** , if you have some actual hard information to that effect, you really should have shared it sooner or not at all. Posting this late leaves it likely that many folks won’t have time to unvote him, but there’s still plenty of time for Scum to pick up on that and target you. And I for one would like enough information about your implicit claim to be able to judge whether I believe it. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2115 "2010-09-02T06:35:06Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > Gotta go to work but please unvote **Astral** - he is just a hobbit. I don’t think a full claims will help here but I strongly advise keeping the names hidden (for the reason mentioned earlier against a mass name claim). > > I hope to get back before Dusk. Is this just your belief or are you _telling_ us he is a hobbit? Is there any alignment to go with this? Technically Gollum is a hobbit. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2116 "2010-09-02T07:35:03Z")
Sorry about this folks. I didn’t get my reread done. This is partly due to advancing eld (I dozed off in front of the PC), and partly due to other commitments today. I won’t be back until after 6pm, and that’s an hour after Dusk. (I’m on BST, remember.) Natlaw’s declaration in defence of Astral Rejection is something that needs closer examination, both for AR’s sake and the timing of the statement. It could have been better. On the other hand, it does mean that we have to find alternatives. Ed is the obvious one, because he’s closest to AR in votes, claims Vanilla and remains suspicious to me because of the way he carried out the handshake. **Vote Special Ed**. I want to note that I have emerging suspicions about a couple of other players based on reeding the Day up to and including post 2000. (Yes, that’s as far as I got.) Until I can review their posts, I’ll keep the names to myself. That’s not going to be until after Dusk, though. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2117 "2010-09-02T07:49:07Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > I want to note that I have emerging suspicions about a couple of other players based on reeding the Day up to and including post 2000. (Yes, that’s as far as I got.) Until I can review their posts, I’ll keep the names to myself. That’s not going to be until after Dusk, though. If you die in the night and flip toen, we will miss those suspicions! ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2118 "2010-09-02T11:39:18Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > Gotta go to work **but please unvote Astral - he is just a hobbit.** I don’t think a full claims will help here but I strongly advise keeping the names hidden (for the reason mentioned earlier against a mass name claim). > > I hope to get back before Dusk. > [@Chronos](#): > > **Natlaw** ,\*\* if you have some actual hard information to that effect, you really should have shared it sooner or not at all. \*\* Posting this late leaves it likely that many folks won’t have time to unvote him, but there’s still plenty of time for Scum to pick up on that and target you. And I for one would like enough information about your implicit claim to be able to judge whether I believe it. \*\*Bolding is mine. \*\* But **Pleonast** still gets a pass? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2119 "2010-09-02T12:46:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Natlaw** , if you have some actual hard information to that effect, you really should have shared it sooner or not at all. Posting this late leaves it likely that many folks won’t have time to unvote him, but there’s still plenty of time for Scum to pick up on that and target you. And I for one would like enough information about your implicit claim to be able to judge whether I believe it. gotta say i agree. and with no “strategy” discussion at Night this is really kind of poor timing. but hey, i was a town vig that went on a town killing spree, so what in the world do i know. i guess the only additional question i would ask at this time is of **astral**. do you know anything that would cause you to believe that **nat** would have this information, if true. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2120 "2010-09-02T12:52:22Z")
By “just a hobbit,” do you mean VT? Are you a Cop, **Natlaw**? If so, why claim to save a mislynch of VT? If you know **AR** is Frodo or something, maybe this might be worth it, but if you mean that he’s VT, I can’t see why a Cop would claim to save him at this point in the game. Plus, if **AR** were Frodo, you’d think he would have come out and claimed by now. I know this is his first game, but this is Mafia 101 stuff. This all just seems really hinky to me. Hopefully I’ll get an answer soon, either by **Astral** claiming or **Natlaw** explaining, as I may not be around for the end of Day, and I don’t want to unvote a VT and go back to voting **Pleonast** this late, with so many questions floating around about all of this. I have to leave around 9:15 (so about 25 minutes) and I’m not sure if I’ll be back before noon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=107)