# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/201 "2010-08-12T15:49:18Z")
Name Claim: Bad idea. I was originally going to reply to specific posts on this, but there have been so many at this point. After his experience with Lost, I can’t imagine that Mahaloth didn’t give the scum cover identities of some kind. Worth noting that in HP he shorted them one, though (one less cover than scum). Still, there are too many obvious power role names for me to think it’s a good idea testing the waters for that possibility. > [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Chronos, I’m sort of with you and sort of not. But I gotta say, bringing up “scum would never do that” as a reason why looking for motivations is bad does not help your argument at all. > > In my experience, “But what’s the Scum motivation?”, when it’s said, almost always has the meaning of “But Scum wouldn’t do that”. Wow, this discussion took up a lot of words/posts. Once it’s taken off the meta level, I’m not sure if anyone is really disagreeing with each other. Antitown=proscum, proscum !=scum in all cases, but is probably a good proxy. > [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Quoth **special ed** :I would have told you that it follows the same format I’ve seen for win conditions in all of **Mahaloth** ’s games I’ve seen. He’s consistent enough that it wouldn’t be all that hard for a Scum to guess what it would say. But if it’ll make you feel better, “You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed.” > > **Chronos:** On the off-chance that the win condition _didn’t_ follow the same format from previous games and/or _wasn’t_ also given to Scum in their role PMs, can you explain why it’s pro-town to reveal it now? Since, by revealing it, you conclusively destroy any possibility that **special ed’s** handshake would be effective? I’m not reading anything anti town in Chronos’s action. This is largely because I’d assume that scum have cover role PMs, and also somewhat because the most obvious win condition section fails ed’s test. > [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Quoth **special ed** :I would have told you that it follows the same format I’ve seen for win conditions in all of **Mahaloth** ’s games I’ve seen. He’s consistent enough that it wouldn’t be all that hard for a Scum to guess what it would say. But if it’ll make you feel better, “You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed.” > > Which demonstrates how you and I play a very different game. > > I, for one, don’t have a win condition section in my role PM. I suspect this comes down to definitions of sections, but I’ll need clarification on this. Especially given that your handshake has both been refuted and agreed with, which I also don’t understand. Gah, i may have to break out excel to track this… ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/202 "2010-08-12T16:00:43Z")
All handshakes, mostly for my reference > [@special\_ed](#): > > In my typical beginning of the game strategy: > > Last section: 7 a’s and 8 t’s. no x’s > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > 6l 3caps with a CRC-16 of 1EC3. > [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Quoth **special ed** :I would have told you that it follows the same format I’ve seen for win conditions in all of **Mahaloth** ’s games I’ve seen. He’s consistent enough that it wouldn’t be all that hard for a Scum to guess what it would say. But if it’ll make you feel better, “You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed.” > > Which demonstrates how you and I play a very different game. > > I, for one, don’t have a win condition section in my role PM. > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Confirmed. > > My role pm meets special Ed’s handshake > > I’ll add 6 Y’s to the pile > [@Gadarene](#): > > Confirming I got my role PM. > > I’m still mulling over the handshake thing. The fact that **special ed** and **Chronos** apparently both got the message “You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed.”\* means that (1) they’re both Town; or (2) **Mahaloth** included the phrase in non-Town role PMs as well.\*\* The only thing it does tell us, I guess, is that at least some role PMs contain at least some of the same sentences, which seems to answer **Red’s** question about whether all role PMs were written uniquely. > > \*(As did I – that was a c&p) > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Ed’s handshake said “in the last section”. That one sentence does not fulfill all the letter requirements. It may still be a goer. > [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > > Confirmed. > > > > My role pm meets special Ed’s handshake > > > > I’ll add 6 Y’s to the pile > > I’m only counting 5 Y’s, and I’ve gone over it a bunch of times to make sure. > > How many Us and Cs, **Wanderers**? > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > I’m only counting 5 Y’s, and I’ve gone over it a bunch of times to make sure. > > > > How many Us and Cs, **Wanderers**? > > defo 6 Y’s. I get 2 of each u’s and c’s > [@peekercpa](#): > > neta: some were capitalized and some were not. > > wink wink nudge nudge. > [@peekercpa](#): > > btw, i have a b in my pm. there are also yet to be disclosed other vowels and consonants. > [@Meeko](#): > > I have 11 O s in grand total of my last two lines of my Role PM. An even Dozen if you count the last three lines. > [@peekercpa](#): > > btw, i just thought of this. does anyone have numbers in their pm or just letters? that might prove to be highly significant. > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > There’s definitely 6 y’s in my PM. And no numbers. Oddly enough, the color of the role and the win condition don’t quite match up. The win condition clearly states **all** threats must be removed, but the color only mentions my chracter worried about Sauron and his minions. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/203 "2010-08-12T16:01:49Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Gah, i may have to break out excel to track this… \ oh fuck, noes. another spreadsheet. and “gah”. seriously. are you channeling **sach**? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/204 "2010-08-12T16:04:51Z")
That’s helpful, **Telcontar**. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/205 "2010-08-12T16:05:50Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > That’s helpful, **Telcontar**. Thanks. my fucking thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/206 "2010-08-12T16:07:50Z")
Lets avoid the win condition trap. I have a sentence in my PM containing the words “Sauron and his minions” (like Hoppy). That sentence has 4As 3Us and 2Hs. Note that I can’t count, or spell, so there is a slight margin for error. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/207 "2010-08-12T16:11:50Z")
oh and a serious observation. i think everyone needs to specify what type of device they are using to count characters per line. i mean some folks may have a larger screen or be counting via blackberry. i don’t think it would be wise to jump to conclusions just because of the device that we are using to count characters. i am using a dell inspiron portable. don’t know the model but will get back to you with that. i think the next order of business would be to clarify the device each of us are using to access this thread. this could prove to be invaluable at end game. and someone make a decision on the criteria for counting. i mean seriously is the subject matter line included if we are doing the whole pm thing. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/208 "2010-08-12T16:12:12Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Lets avoid the win condition trap. I have a sentence in my PM containing the words “Sauron and his minions” (like Hoppy). That sentence has 4As 3Us and 2Hs. Note that I can’t count, or spell, so there is a slight margin for error. I get different counts for each of those letters, FWIW. So, at this point, I’m pretty baffled. (Or leaning towards the “ **Mahaloth** is a sly fox who made slight variations to each role PM” theory, I guess.) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/209 "2010-08-12T16:13:47Z")
NETA: pretty sure that wasn’t a serious observation in #207, **peeker** , but I admire the aridity of your sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/210 "2010-08-12T16:16:42Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Note that I can’t count, or spell, so there is a slight margin for error. this is simple then: **unvote all** **vote telcontar** apparantly he is the folk i always run across at the grocery story in the express line that says ten items or less. fucking 40 items later i am always left pondering whether they can’t count or they can’t read. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/211 "2010-08-12T16:20:01Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > NETA: pretty sure that wasn’t a serious observation in #207, **peeker** , but I admire the aridity of your sense of humor. thank god someone gets it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/212 "2010-08-12T16:22:28Z")
Quoth **special ed** : > [@](#): > > Though, I fear if more people espouse Chronos’ strategy, I’ll be lynched because it does seem to be a lynch the loud strategy since they are the ones more likely to do more anti-Town things. To be clear, I consider lurking to itself be anti-Town. As to fouling the vote record because everyone will just vote for the person who’s anti-Town, that won’t happen because different people will have different notions of what is or is not anti-Town, or which folks are more anti-Town. Quoth **peeker** : > [@](#): > > now the one policy that i will follow pretty strictly (but once again with some wiggle room) is lynch the lurker. and i want to make this durn clear to the nanooks and chronos of the world. lurking is not defined by quantity. conversely, not lurking is also not defined by quantity. lurking (non participation?) has become a disturbing trend in these games, in my opinion. and to be honest even i had to vote for a teammate (fellow scum, mason, etc.) because they just weren’t playing - then off with their heads. because lurking is the gravest sin of all. it’s ANTI GAME. I agree entirely. In the ideal case, we wouldn’t have any lurkers at all, so it’d be a nonissue, but if we do have lurkers, then that’s a valid reason for a vote. Maybe not the _best_ reason, but certainly something to consider, if nothing better comes up. Quoth **Gadarene** : > [@](#): > > \*\*(Frankly, I don’t buy Chronos’s contention that someone could easily guess the phrase without having received it – unless Mahaloth’s past win conditions have all been exactly “You win when all threats to the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ have been destroyed,” it seems utterly implausible. IIRC, his past win conditions have all been exactly of that form. And I really don’t like **Pleonast** ’s soft-reveal there. Either he’s lying, or he’s telling the truth. If he’s lying, it’s going to come back to bite him in the butt later on (and Town with him, if he’s Town), since Townies should never lie. If he’s telling the truth, then he’s not helping Town any, since without knowing what power he’s claiming to be, we can’t verify his claim, and we can’t plan on how to take advantage of his power. But he is helping the Scum, since the biggest piece of information the Scum want about power roles is who has one, not necessarily what power role that is. Even if he’s just some minor power role, the Scum would rather kill (or roleblock or redirect or whatever, if they have those powers) him than some random vanilla. Oh, and I retract my original finger of suspicion on **special ed** , based on him asking **Mahaloth** about the vanilla PM. Given that he was handshaking in that post (which I didn’t realize at the time), it makes sense to ask about it. I’m still not happy about his stating that he didn’t have a win condition section, though. Added on preview: **peeker** , I’m not sure if votes count yet. We’re still technically in Night 0, not Day 1. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/213 "2010-08-12T16:34:18Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@Telcontar](#): > > > > Lets avoid the win condition trap. I have a sentence in my PM containing the words “Sauron and his minions” (like Hoppy). That sentence has 4As 3Us and 2Hs. Note that I can’t count, or spell, so there is a slight margin for error. > > I get different counts for each of those letters, FWIW. So, at this point, I’m pretty baffled. (Or leaning towards the “ **Mahaloth** is a sly fox who made slight variations to each role PM” theory, I guess.) It doesn’t help that I actually have 5As and 3Hs. Bloody fluency. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/214 "2010-08-12T16:36:06Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > (like Hoppy). **Hoopy** , dammit! H-o-o-p-y. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/215 "2010-08-12T16:37:20Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > [@Telcontar](#): > > > > (like Hoppy). > > **Hoopy** , dammit! H-o-o-p-y. 🙂 Are you hopping mad? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/216 "2010-08-12T16:38:36Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > I get different counts for each of those letters, FWIW. So, at this point, I’m pretty baffled. (Or leaning towards the “ **Mahaloth** is a sly fox who made slight variations to each role PM” theory, I guess.) > > It doesn’t help that I actually have 5As and 3Hs. Bloody fluency. Still the same number of Us, though? > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > **Hoopy** , dammit! H-o-o-p-y. 🙂 He always knows where his towel is. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/217 "2010-08-12T16:42:32Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > I get different counts for each of those letters, FWIW. So, at this point, I’m pretty baffled. (Or leaning towards the “ **Mahaloth** is a sly fox who made slight variations to each role PM” theory, I guess.) > > It doesn’t help that I actually have 5As and 3Hs. Bloody fluency. How many times does your PM mention “Sauron and his minions” ? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/218 "2010-08-12T16:46:01Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > [@Telcontar](#): > > > > It doesn’t help that I actually have 5As and 3Hs. Bloody fluency. > > How many times does your PM mention “Sauron and his minions” ? now this is a fucking interesting question. i await with baited breath. **mod question: can we start voting and shit for real because this puppy has left the lauch pad?** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/219 "2010-08-12T16:48:04Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > **Is recruitment a possibility in this game?** > > No comment. **Shit** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/220 "2010-08-12T16:50:42Z")
Posting as I catch up. Ya’ll posted a lot this morning. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > Confirmed. > > I think that voting for anti-town actions is a good policy but we need to make sure that the actions really hurt the town more then they help. Take Peeker for instance, he’s been lynched in the past for being a distraction but his stirring of the post did generate a lot of discussion which is good for town. I think that we need to look at the sum of their actions not just a single on when deciding anti-town. Colorless. 'nuf said [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=12)