# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2221 "2010-09-05T21:27:32Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > > Anyhoo. You are still my #2 lynch choice after Nat. > > \ > > and that’s fine. get in line behind **hoopy**. > > i was merely observing that your vote flipped the switch. hey, i thought **ed** was doing some things that were scum motivated. but the more i read the more i became convinced that was not the case. and when he claimed faramir and not glorifndel (or whatever the crud) i knew what he was. and because i have specifically told the mods i don’t want a ruling on this i had to go on what i knew. but that’s why i was after **astral** on whether he knew any reason that **nat** would know him. > > the fact that others chose to ignore this and lynch someone they thought was town seems kind of odd. i mean let’s agree to disagree on the general game state but i don’t see any other way to characterize your vote shift that doomed my little brother. > > and now here we are. was your vote shift a result of just kind of reacting or was it orchestrated by scum? i guess we’ll see when **nat** flips. > > p.s. and if it was orchestrated by scum my hats go off to you folks because that would be the ballsiest play i have ever seen in a mafia game. the only trouble is that you are kind of fucked from here on out. Not really, because no one else is trying to condemn me for this. The one person who has even commented so far specifically stated they understood why I did what I did. You did too, cos no one is that obtuse. You just cant stop banging the drum now tho. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2222 "2010-09-05T21:37:13Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > \ > > > > and that’s fine. get in line behind **hoopy**. > > > > i was merely observing that your vote flipped the switch. hey, i thought **ed** was doing some things that were scum motivated. but the more i read the more i became convinced that was not the case. and when he claimed faramir and not glorifndel (or whatever the crud) i knew what he was. and because i have specifically told the mods i don’t want a ruling on this i had to go on what i knew. but that’s why i was after **astral** on whether he knew any reason that **nat** would know him. > > > > the fact that others chose to ignore this and lynch someone they thought was town seems kind of odd. i mean let’s agree to disagree on the general game state but i don’t see any other way to characterize your vote shift that doomed my little brother. > > > > and now here we are. was your vote shift a result of just kind of reacting or was it orchestrated by scum? i guess we’ll see when **nat** flips. > > > > p.s. and if it was orchestrated by scum my hats go off to you folks because that would be the ballsiest play i have ever seen in a mafia game. the only trouble is that you are kind of fucked from here on out. > > Not really, because no one else is trying to condemn me for this. The one person who has even commented so far specifically stated they understood why I did what I did. You did too, cos no one is that obtuse. You just cant stop banging the drum now tho. where and who was that **wanderer**? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2223 "2010-09-05T21:39:41Z")
and i totally agree that no one else is condemning you for your actions. but shit look at the fracking results thus far. heebus jeebus. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2224 "2010-09-05T21:42:45Z")
neta: oh, by the way, yes i am condemning you for your late vote shift to **ed**. show me where i don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2225 "2010-09-05T21:52:56Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > > The odd thing is, if Astral is town, why wouldn’t have scum have killed him in this case? A town doc is more apt to protect Natlaw over Astral, since an investigator is more useful than a town confirmation. And Astral coming up town confirms Natlaw’s save. This makes me very suspicious of Astral. > > Hoopy, I can’t make heads nor tails of this paragraph. It makes me think we’re watching two different games. > > 1. Why do you think scum would kill me over Natlaw, _if Natlaw was a legit investigator?_ > > 2. Why would a town doc be more apt to protect him over me, _when the doc is already dead?_ > > 3. Why do you think the scum would want to kill me anyway if I’m town? Natlaw knew I was vanilla. Seems to me they’d love for us to mislynch a vanilla townie, while they take out folks like Pleonast. Since you ask this, you lack imagination, or you’re scum. One of the two. First of all, we’ll assume Natlaw is not legit. Otherwise this whole line of hypothetical is moot. Now, the thinking can go that _if_ Natlaw were town, while scum would most likely take out Natlaw, they might play a what-if. There have been multiple games where there’s been more than one protector. So if town had a second protector, they’d likely protect Natlaw. So going for a confirmed town would not be a bad play. So scum take out you, since you’re confirmed and Natlaw can use the above excuse as to why scum didn’t attack him. And since you show up town, Natlaw has support that he confirmed a townie. IMO, that’s a far better strategy for scum at this point than taking out a blocker. There’s always time to take out a blocker. Particularly since Pleo’s no doubt smart enough to realize that blockers should generally hold their actions in early game anyway, otherwise they’re a bigger threat to town than scum typically. So at this point, he’s not something they have a compelling reason to remove. > [@](#): > > 1. I haven’t come up anything yet. I claim I’m vanilla town. Natlaw claims I’m vanilla town. Natlaw is scum. I’m still, as far as you know, totally up in the air. You seem awfully certain I’m town based on me and Natlaw’s say-so, and Natlaw is just about as confirmed scum as you can get. Huh? I don’t think you’re town. The fact that you lived is a not insignificant data point against you being town. Where did you get the idea that I think you’re town? > [@Chronos](#): > > **Pleonast** told them he was a power role, and they may have investigated him to be sure. A roleblocker is a better target than a confirmed Town until the endgame (especially if **Natlaw** is Scum, so he’s not confirmed after all), and with the doctor dead, they didn’t have to play paper-rock-scissors with their target. I disagree in this case. Normally, you’d be right. A blocker who’s holding back would be slightly better than confirmed town at this point. (It’s still too early for a blocker to be a true threat to scum.) However, killing a townie to support a scum’s town claim is better strategy. It’s what I would have done. Especially since Pleo provided a bit of a distraction. A distraction that is now removed. By killing Pleo, they’ve reduced the pool of unknowns, missed a chance to support Natlaw’s case, and lost a distraction, and did all this to exchange for a power that is not really threatening to them at this point. It’s not damning against Astral, but it is suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2226 "2010-09-05T21:58:17Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > > > Night 1 I investigated Meeko, Night 2 Natlaw, and last Night Guiri. Meeko and Guiri came back with Town results, though I make no promises about the existance or not of a Godfather. Natlaw came back with a scum result. > > @ **Nanook** , why me? Given your result on **Natlaw** and his late claim yesterDay in defense of **Astral** , why didn’t you investigate **Astral** last Night to see if he was scum too? Detectives are generally better used for confirming town, not finding scum. If Nanook thought Astral was more likely to be scum, there’d be no reason for him to investigate in this case. I don’t know if that was Nanook’s thinking, but it’s not like he’s not using a common strategy if it is. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2227 "2010-09-05T21:59:02Z")
> [@](#): > > There have been multiple games where there’s been more than one protector. Oh, I see now. I only ever watched Harry Potter, and there was one protector. It didn’t even occur to me that there might be two. > [@](#): > > Huh? I don’t think you’re town. My mistake. When you said “And Astral coming up town confirms Natlaw’s save,” I thought you were assuming I’m confirmed town. I’m not, but I see we agree about that now. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2228 "2010-09-05T22:03:38Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > > Not really, because no one else is trying to condemn me for this. The one person who has even commented so far specifically stated they understood why I did what I did. You did too, cos no one is that obtuse. You just cant stop banging the drum now tho. > > where and who was that **wanderer**? He’s no doubt referring to me in post 2210. You know, the very post you responded to next with 2211? So how exactly can you miss it when you earlier addressed the very point you are asking OAOW about? Are you even playing the same game the rest of us are? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2229 "2010-09-05T22:09:17Z")
i love triangulation. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2230 "2010-09-05T22:10:49Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Detectives are generally better used for confirming town, not finding scum. > > If Nanook thought Astral was more likely to be scum, there’d be no reason for him to investigate in this case. > > I don’t know if that was Nanook’s thinking, but it’s not like he’s not using a common strategy if it is. I’m familiar with the strategy but I think the situation here was uncommon. **Nanook** had a scum result, that player had claimed **Nanook** ’s role and prevented the lynch of another player. **Nanook** said earlier that he’d resolved to claim toDay. He’d had one Town result and one scum result. Knowing that he was about to put himself at risk of being Night killed after claiming, by investigating **Astral** he had a decent chance of finding a second scum and if not, at least he’d leave us with two Town results anyway. Given the circumstances of this game, I don’t see why he’d chose to investigate me over **Astral**. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2231 "2010-09-05T22:14:12Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > > Detectives are generally better used for confirming town, not finding scum. > > > > If Nanook thought Astral was more likely to be scum, there’d be no reason for him to investigate in this case. > > > > I don’t know if that was Nanook’s thinking, but it’s not like he’s not using a common strategy if it is. > > I’m familiar with the strategy but I think the situation here was uncommon. **Nanook** had a scum result, that player had claimed **Nanook** ’s role and prevented the lynch of another player. **Nanook** said earlier that he’d resolved to claim toDay. He’d had one Town result and one scum result. Knowing that he was about to put himself at risk of being Night killed after claiming, by investigating **Astral** he had a decent chance of finding a second scum and if not, at least he’d leave us with two Town results anyway. Given the circumstances of this game, I don’t see why he’d chose to investigate me over **Astral**. because you are a slippery weasel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2232 "2010-09-05T22:19:19Z")
and i will add this. i understand the power of a dick confirming vts. but i tell you what i would rather have a true town dick report on Day 4 that they have found 3 scum rather than 3 town. my two cents, ymmv, etc. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2233 "2010-09-05T23:09:53Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > where and who was that **wanderer**? > > He’s no doubt referring to me in post 2210. You know, the very post you responded to next with 2211? So how exactly can you miss it when you earlier addressed the very point you are asking OAOW about? > > Are you even playing the same game the rest of us are? oh yeh, the one portion when i am am giving him grief for voting for someone he thinks to be town. and then linking it into your “i am not sure, but i am sure stance”. yeh, that was scummy as all hell. thanks for reminding me. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2234 "2010-09-05T23:11:50Z")
I investigated you because I thought you were scum. I was trying to find a second scum to go with Natlaw. I was (probably) wrong as it turns out, but that was my thought process. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2235 "2010-09-05T23:21:06Z")
Personally I think that a detective’s best choice of targets are folks e’s most unsure about. If you’re already pretty sure what someone’s alignment is, and your investigation confirms it, you haven’t really gained much. Since there are more Town than Scum, the default assumption for everyone should be that they’re more likely Town, and so the person one’s most uncertain about will usually be the one whom one finds Scummiest, but there can be exceptions to that. Quoth **Hoopy** : > [@](#): > > IMO, that’s a far better strategy for scum at this point than taking out a blocker. There’s always time to take out a blocker. Particularly since Pleo’s no doubt smart enough to realize that blockers should generally hold their actions in early game anyway, otherwise they’re a bigger threat to town than scum typically. So at this point, he’s not something they have a compelling reason to remove. I disagree. Of the likely Town power roles a blocker might accidentally hit, the only one that’s really a significant problem is the Detective (since doctors usually aren’t successful anyway, and early Vigs often do more harm than good). Weigh against this that the roleblocker has just as big a chance to hit the Scum killer as e does the detective, also has a chance to hit a Serial Killer if there is one, and also has the chance to inconvenience other Scum power roles. So you’re trading a risk of one blocked investigation for a chance of one saved life. But it’s better than that, even: If the blocker uses his power on someone and there’s no Scum kill that Night, that gives the blocker valuable information: There’s a good chance that the person e blocked was the Scum killer (even more so, once the Doctor is dead). And likewise, if the Scum kill does go through, then the blocker learns that that person wasn’t the Scum killer (admittedly less valuable information, but information nonetheless). So it’s not just a trade of information vs. life that you’re gambling on, it’s a trade of information vs. life plus information. Even just firing randomly, I think that a roleblocker can be expected to do more good than harm, and of course e won’t be firing randomly, either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2236 "2010-09-05T23:24:02Z")
**peeker** , **Wanderers** may have suspected that **ed** was Town, but he had a perfectly good reason to suspect even more strongly than **Astral** was Town. If anything, you should be suspicious of the folks who _didn’t_ vote **ed** to try to save the guy who was claimed investigated. Folks like, I don’t know, you maybe. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2237 "2010-09-05T23:34:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **peeker** , **Wanderers** may have suspected that **ed** was Town, but he had a perfectly good reason to suspect even more strongly than **Astral** was Town. If anything, you should be suspicious of the folks who _didn’t_ vote **ed** to try to save the guy who was claimed investigated. Folks like, I don’t know, you maybe. but since i was convinced he was town i should have voted him? seriously, what the fuck. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2238 "2010-09-05T23:37:06Z")
neta: and i didn’t have my vote on **astral**. so why would i move to someone that i strongly suspect, if not know, is town? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2239 "2010-09-05T23:38:58Z")
because i don’t have a clue what **astral** is. yeh, i should have probably moved my vote to **astral** to tie it up. is that what you are suggesting? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2240 "2010-09-05T23:42:35Z")
i voted for someone that i am convinced is scum. now if that is a bad townie then spank me into next week. but someone who votes for someone else and caveats it with "i think he is town’ is full of it. you guys/gals can give me a ration of crud for keeping discussion going, and that is your perogative. but never once, as a townie, have i ever voted for someone else being a townie because it is the easy way out. that is scum play and that is scum motivated. crap, better get off the soap box before i get in even deeper shit with you folks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=113)