# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2241 "2010-09-06T00:19:21Z")
> [@](#): > > but since i was convinced he was town i should have voted him? seriously, what the fuck. You had a reason to believe that **Astral** was Town, but you didn’t have any reason to believe that **ed** was Town. Your argument about a pseudo-crypto-masonry is pure garbage. > [@](#): > > because i don’t have a clue what astral is. You did, in fact, have a clue as to what **Astral** is. That clue is now being called into doubt, but folks should go by the information they have. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2242 "2010-09-06T00:51:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > but since i was convinced he was town i should have voted him? seriously, what the fuck. > > You had a reason to believe that **Astral** was Town, but you didn’t have any reason to believe that **ed** was Town. Your argument about a pseudo-crypto-masonry is pure garbage. > > > [@](#): > > > > because i don’t have a clue what astral is. > > You did, in fact, have a clue as to what **Astral** is. That clue is now being called into doubt, but folks should go by the information they have. i only have the information that i have. the information i had led me to believe that **ed** was telling the truth and i was right. and i think i made it very clear that an **ed** lynch was not wise. the fact that we have at least one person that acts in absolute contradiction to that advice all the while espousing that they think that the person they just flipped into the gallows is town makes me go, hmmmmmm. the information that **nat** provided was insufficient for me to conclude that he was right about either himself or **astral**. i think i am going to be proved correct on this one, as well. the fact that people act on information that they have should not be held against them. matter of fact, if i am right then you should count your lucky stars. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2243 "2010-09-06T01:03:39Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Are you even playing the same game the rest of us are? \ apparantly not. i keep trying to keep townies from getting lynched and that seems to failing miserably. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2244 "2010-09-06T01:28:06Z")
As promised: **vote Natlaw** I was pretty certain he was Scum after the error-ridden PM, and wanted to get it on record even though I couldn’t put a vote down at that particular time without being greatly annoyed. So here’s the vote, now that I’m on my laptop. As for everything else being discussed, I’m not sure…I am utterly baffled by what **Natlaw** has done. When I am Scum, pretty much the first thing I discuss on the Scum boards is how you do not, under any circumstances, do something to save a fellow Scum that will expose yourself. If it seems certain another Scum, even a power role, is going down, you vote for them and save yourselves. If **Natlaw** is Scum and so is **Astral** , all it means is that one’s death was delayed by a couple of days, and the other went from no suspicion at all to dead in a Day. It just doesn’t make any sense. But neither does the idea that a Scum would out himself to get people to switch from one VT to another. And while it seems like I’m talking myself out of a vote here, the “scum wouldn’t do that” path is rife with fuckups, and that role PM just cannot be real. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2245 "2010-09-06T01:29:59Z")
And yet when **Wanderers** tries to keep townies from getting lynched, you get all up in his business over it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2246 "2010-09-06T01:42:06Z")
Actually, that role PM does raise another question: We’ve had at least two false Detective claims now, and both were pretty bad. No experienced Scum would write up anything that transparent, nor allow a buddy to try one. And **Natlaw** ’s claim, at least, came after Scum had a whole Night to discuss and polish it up (one reason why, if **Natlaw** were honest, he should have posted his PM when he claimed, instead of waiting overNight). Should we conclude from this that the random number gods were kind to us at setup, and that the entire Scum team is inexperienced? Failing that, the best hypothesis I can come up with is that **Natlaw** came up with the claim on the spur of the moment, and that since he already had the oddity of detecting race in his pre-Night claims, that crippled the Scum’s options for what they could polish out of it. But then we have to explain why **Natlaw** came up with that on the spur of the moment: If **Astral** is some high-value Scum that was worth possibly outing another Scum to save, then they should have planned ahead, since he was already starting to get some heat on previous Days. On the other hand, if **Astral** is innocent and **Natlaw** was hoping for Townie cred for saving him, well that doesn’t seem like the sort of thing someone would come up with so spontaneously, either, and it’s not like they wouldn’t have had plenty more opportunities to put it in place later. **Natlaw** wasn’t exactly under any pressure, either, that he would have felt that he needed to get some credibility right then; from my records, I don’t think anyone ever voted him before that point. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2247 "2010-09-06T01:50:59Z")
Yes. The whole thing is just baffling. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2248 "2010-09-06T01:53:15Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i only have the information that i have. Except you don’t actually have that information, you’re making assumptions that are not proven to be true to anyone else playing the game. **vote Natlaw** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2249 "2010-09-06T01:56:12Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > i only have the information that i have. > > Except you don’t actually have that information, you’re making assumptions that are not proven to be true to anyone else playing the game. > > **vote Natlaw** i only have pms from the mod. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2250 "2010-09-06T01:57:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And yet when **Wanderers** tries to keep townies from getting lynched, you get all up in his business over it. uh, **wanderers** lynched **ed** who is as near as i can tell still town. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2251 "2010-09-06T01:58:18Z")
albeit dead town. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2252 "2010-09-06T01:58:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But then we have to explain why **Natlaw** came up with that on the spur of the moment: If **Astral** is some high-value Scum that was worth possibly outing another Scum to save, then they should have planned ahead, since he was already starting to get some heat on previous Days. On the other hand, if **Astral** is innocent and **Natlaw** was hoping for Townie cred for saving him, well that doesn’t seem like the sort of thing someone would come up with so spontaneously, either, and it’s not like they wouldn’t have had plenty more opportunities to put it in place later. **Natlaw** wasn’t exactly under any pressure, either, that he would have felt that he needed to get some credibility right then; from my records, I don’t think anyone ever voted him before that point. This, I think, hits on the most puzzling part of the while fiasco. Regardless of \*\*Astral’s \*\*alignment I can’t figure out what motivation a Scum aligned \*\*Natlaw \*\*has here. Still, we have a claim and counter-claim so one of them has to die Today and **Natlaw’s** claim seems so amateur he is the one for Today. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2253 "2010-09-06T02:00:31Z")
and i swear to whomever. i promise you i am not failing to bleach on purpose, **maha**. jeesh, i suck when it comes to that kind of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2254 "2010-09-06T02:01:08Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i only have pms from the mod. Exactly > [@peekercpa](#): > > uh, **wanderers** lynched **ed** who is as near as i can tell still town. No one else knew that at the time. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2255 "2010-09-06T02:23:53Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > i only have pms from the mod. > > Exactly > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > uh, **wanderers** lynched **ed** who is as near as i can tell still town. > > No one else knew that at the time. scum would know. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2256 "2010-09-06T03:00:23Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and i swear to whomever. i promise you i am not failing to bleach on purpose, **maha**. > > jeesh, i suck when it comes to that kind of stuff. Well, once you consider how many times you are quoting this game. I mean if there is a flat percentage of time you forget, then of course you would hit a lot of them. I mean, what are you at now Peeks, 500 ? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2257 "2010-09-06T03:02:32Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Vote Count: > > Peeker(1): Meeko > > Natlaw(7): Astral, Nanook, Chronos, Innerstickler, Oneandonly, Peeker, Hoopy Oh boy. Looks like I’m late to the party here. Give me a second. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2258 "2010-09-06T03:23:44Z")
First off: **vote Natlaw** When playing catch-up, I was thinking to myself that the only possible town player who would have a Palantir was Denethor (and he was scum). IIRC, The only other Palantirs that were in the canon belonged Saruman (then to Aragorn who is dead) and Sauron (Both most likely scum). Secondly: I’m not convinced Astral is not scum. It would be prudent for a possible vig to consider killing him, maybe not actually killing him but seriously give it some thought. The reason being is that natlaw knows better than to protect scum just for the sake of doing it. If Astral is scum, he’s got to be something worth preserving, (Strongman, politician, or extra killer) spring to mind. Thirdly: Some people will hate me for revealing this, but I received a piece of parchment during the night. Anyone care to speculate on what this might mean, as I haven’t the foggiest. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2259 "2010-09-06T03:25:00Z")
NETA: Added to the first paragraph: Before I read Nanook’s counterclaim. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2260 "2010-09-06T03:25:38Z")
I hate this. I soooooo want to vote Nanook. But I also don’t want to pull a Peeker. Speaking of Peeker \*\* Unvote Peeker \*\* **Vote Natlaw** Some part of me wants to think that the “” Pm Mahaloth “” verbiage is not that far out of line. I would like to think that I had some game, some Role PM that had “” PM Mahaloth “”. But, I am going to walk down a path were I confuse even myself here, I fear. If we get this wrong, I hope we have time to right the ship tomorrow. Then again, The scum would have [and apparently DID] already bus Nat here, eh? And I have no clue about ““Precious””. Apparently the Mont Blanc Pens are back out, en masse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=114)