# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 124
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2461 "2010-09-12T16:59:54Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > It occurs to me that a godfather would say that, too. If you think I’m Sauron, not even an investigation would change your mind. This bothered me Yesterday, but I put it on the back burner until Today. How are you so sure that 1)there is a Godfather role at all and 2) that Sauron is the role name for the presumed Godfather? > [@](#): > > If Natlaw turns up scum (and let’s be honest, I’m just about sure he will), I can’t begrudge you for voting for me in turn. Thanks! > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Why put them off? Either scum didn’t have an example of the role PM, and those guys are all town with names that can’t be counter-claimed, or scum did have examples of the role PM, and they shook with Ed. However, Mahaloth might not have given them enough names to go around, and you might get lucky and catch scum using a name somebody else can counter. Either way, scum know who’s town and who isn’t, so what additional information would we be handing to them? Well first of all, \*\*Suburban \*\*didn’t use a fake name, he used his real one (Denethor) which is reasonable since his character could feasibly be on either side. While \*\*Natlaw \*\*did use a fake name (Glorfindel), he waited as long as he could and sort of whispered it in[this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12885733&postcount=2314): > [@Natlaw](#): > > Trust me - I’m town (Glorfindel for those who asked) So even if \*\*Mahaloth \*\*shorted the Scum one name (like in Harry Potter), they would be fine given that \*\*Suburban \*\*didn’t use a fake name. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2462 "2010-09-12T17:06:07Z")
[quote=“USCDiver, post:2461, topic:549867”] > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > It occurs to me that a godfather would say that, too. If you think I’m Sauron, not even an investigation would change your mind. This bothered me Yesterday, but I put it on the back burner until Today. How are you so sure that 1)there is a Godfather role at all and 2) that Sauron is the role name for the presumed Godfather? You don’t think that’s a reasonable assumption? If there’s a godfather, I bet it’s Sauron. I’m not saying there’s one for sure. I said if he thought I was Sauron, aka a godfather, then an investigation would be worthless. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2463 "2010-09-12T17:21:52Z")
The problem is that you don’t give any indication this is an assumption. You are stating is as if it is fact. It is a small difference, granted, but that’s where this game is won or lost. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2464 "2010-09-12T17:24:18Z")
I didn’t explain in the hypothetical that I’m not really scum, either, but that’s assumed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2465 "2010-09-12T17:44:38Z")
At my computer for only a moment, but… **vote Astral** I’m a bit concerned that **Natlaw** had name info on **Astral** from some other source, but my previous analysis of **Astral** ’s behavior, especially on Day One, leads me to believe that he’s most likely Scum. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2466 "2010-09-12T17:48:21Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You don’t think that’s a reasonable assumption? If there’s a godfather, I bet it’s Sauron. I’m not saying there’s one for sure. I said if he thought I was Sauron, aka a godfather, then an investigation would be worthless. actually i would think that if there is a godfather type role that the last name they would be given would be sauron. i mean anyone claiming to be sauron and then mentioning that, oh by the by i am town aligned, even with a dick town investigation i think, would be ripe for lynching. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2467 "2010-09-12T18:00:51Z")
> [@](#): > > However, Mahaloth might not have given them enough names to go around, and you might get lucky and catch scum using a name somebody else can counter. Which is precisely why I’d rather wait until toMorrow for that. We have a Scum to lynch right now, anyway, so there’s no need for another one so soon. But between now and then, there’s a chance (a small one, but what have we got to lose?) that a Scum might claim one of those folks’ names, and we’d get a counterclaim. As for giving the Scum another Night to prepare, if they have any sense at all, they’ve been preparing for this all game. On the topic of the Godfather, before **Natlaw** ’s death, I would actually have guessed that the godfather-power would be given to Saruman (whom everyone trusted at the beginning of the story), not to Sauron (who, canonically, was unable to take on a pleasing form ever since the Fall of Numenor). Obviously, this has turned out not to be the case, but Town didn’t know that at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2468 "2010-09-13T01:00:02Z")
Well, the whole “Sauron and his minions” thing makes me believe that Sauron is the head baddie–and that’s usually the GF. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2469 "2010-09-13T01:08:49Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Well, the whole “Sauron and his minions” thing makes me believe that Sauron is the head baddie–and that’s usually the GF. hey, **drain** i know what you are saying but in this canon claiming sauron and also claiming town makes not a whole bunch of sense. i mean i could see sauron being a blow through killer type, a recruiter type, or maybe someone who knows who other town roles are. but i just don’t see sauron as being disguised as town. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2470 "2010-09-13T01:12:08Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > hey, **drain** i know what you are saying but in this canon claiming sauron and also claiming town makes not a whole bunch of sense. i mean i could see sauron being a blow through killer type, a recruiter type, or maybe someone who knows who other town roles are. but i just don’t see sauron as being disguised as town. Who in the world has argued that Sauron would be town? I am arguing that \*\*Astral \*\*seems to already \*\*\*know \*\*\*that Sauron is not only in the game, but also is the Godfather. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2471 "2010-09-13T01:57:24Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Who in the world has argued that Sauron would be town? I am arguing that \*\*Astral \*\*seems to already \*\*\*know \*\*\*that Sauron is not only in the game, but also is the Godfather. This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read all game. Are you seriously contending that Sauron **might not be in the game?** Given that the enemy forces are called SAURON and his minions? And you seem stuck on the fact that I assumed he’d be the godfather. In Harry Potter mafia, Voldemort was the godfather, no? I don’t remember him using polyjuice potion in the books. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2472 "2010-09-13T02:16:33Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > hey, **drain** i know what you are saying but in this canon claiming sauron and also claiming town makes not a whole bunch of sense. i mean i could see sauron being a blow through killer type, a recruiter type, or maybe someone who knows who other town roles are. but i just don’t see sauron as being disguised as town. > > Who in the world has argued that Sauron would be town? I am arguing that \*\*Astral \*\*seems to already \*\*\*know \*\*\*that Sauron is not only in the game, but also is the Godfather. i was merely observing that if sauron is in this game (which i would kind of expect) and that if he was a gf (which who knows at this point) that if a town dick came back with a town read on someone that later claimed to be sauron i would find that highly suspect. especially if that person claimed to be town aligned. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2473 "2010-09-13T04:06:37Z")
Who ever said anything about anyone claiming Sauron? Besides you, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2474 "2010-09-13T10:23:47Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read all game. Are you seriously contending that Sauron **might not be in the game?** Given that the enemy forces are called SAURON and his minions? And you seem stuck on the fact that I assumed he’d be the godfather. > > In Harry Potter mafia, Voldemort was the godfather, no? I don’t remember him using polyjuice potion in the books. If that’s the most ridiculous thing you’ve read in this game, you haven’t been paying attention. Until the Mod tells me otherwise, I contend that the Town players don’t KNOW there is a player with the role of Sauron in this game. Sure it’s a good possibility, but it isn’t unheard of to have key characters from the canon absent if their presence doesn’t fit the color of that particular game. I’m concerned about your lack of skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2475 "2010-09-13T10:48:06Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read all game. Are you seriously contending that Sauron **might not be in the game?** Given that the enemy forces are called SAURON and his minions? And you seem stuck on the fact that I assumed he’d be the godfather. > > > > In Harry Potter mafia, Voldemort was the godfather, no? I don’t remember him using polyjuice potion in the books. > > If that’s the most ridiculous thing you’ve read in this game, you haven’t been paying attention. Until the Mod tells me otherwise, I contend that the Town players don’t KNOW there is a player with the role of Sauron in this game. Sure it’s a good possibility, but it isn’t unheard of to have key characters from the canon absent if their presence doesn’t fit the color of that particular game. I’m concerned about your lack of skepticism. I disagree in this particular case. Sauron and his minions are who I am worried about. He is specifically mentioned in my role pm. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2476 "2010-09-13T13:21:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Who ever said anything about anyone claiming Sauron? Besides you, I mean. it’s a hypothetical observation. see the "if"s? ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2477 "2010-09-13T14:01:06Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i was merely observing that if sauron is in this game (which i would kind of expect) and that if he was a gf (which who knows at this point) that if a town dick came back with a town read on someone that later claimed to be sauron i would find that highly suspect. especially if that person claimed to be town aligned. What? This doesn’t make any sort of sense at all. I find it extremely, extremely unlikely that a Sauron godfather would later claim that he or she was Sauron after being investigated as town. No one in their right mind would do this. Instead, they’d claim some other cover role, either one that they dreamed up or one given to them by Mahaloth. What on earth can you possibly mean by this, **peeker**? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2478 "2010-09-13T14:13:38Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > i was merely observing that if sauron is in this game (which i would kind of expect) and that if he was a gf (which who knows at this point) that if a town dick came back with a town read on someone that later claimed to be sauron i would find that highly suspect. especially if that person claimed to be town aligned. > > What? This doesn’t make any sort of sense at all. I find it extremely, extremely unlikely that a Sauron godfather would later claim that he or she was Sauron after being investigated as town. No one in their right mind would do this. Instead, they’d claim some other cover role, either one that they dreamed up or one given to them by Mahaloth. > > What on earth can you possibly mean by this, **peeker**? Agreed. Being a godfather isn’t about having a safe fake claim, rather it’s about investigating as town when checked out by a town inv. Anyone who claimed Sauron in this game but then expected us to believe they were town would soon be doing the hemp fandango no matter how many inv’s exonerated them. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2479 "2010-09-13T14:24:18Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > > [@Snickers](#): > > > > What? This doesn’t make any sort of sense at all. I find it extremely, extremely unlikely that a Sauron godfather would later claim that he or she was Sauron after being investigated as town. No one in their right mind would do this. Instead, they’d claim some other cover role, either one that they dreamed up or one given to them by Mahaloth. > > > > What on earth can you possibly mean by this, **peeker**? > > Agreed. Being a godfather isn’t about having a safe fake claim, rather it’s about investigating as town when checked out by a town inv. > > Anyone who claimed Sauron in this game but then expected us to believe they were town would soon be doing the hemp fandango no matter how many inv’s exonerated them. am i the only one that is seeing "if"s on their screen? and **wanderer** said about the same thing that i was trying to. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/2480 "2010-09-13T14:30:11Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I disagree in this particular case. Sauron and his minions are who I am worried about. He is specifically mentioned in my role pm. i heartily endorse this sentiment. **unvote** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=123) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=125)