# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/441 "2010-08-13T21:50:45Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@USCDiver](#): > > > > It was my first post since the handshake conversation had begun. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to participate? Since I’m a few hours behind everyone else I should just keep my mouth shut? > > /snipped > > I asked what you expected to gain. I presume you expected to be confirmed as Town or something but given the discussion that had taken place previously, this was looking less and less likely. > > I was (and still am) concerned that we’re simply giving information to scum. If they do have access to a vanilla town PM, any further attempts at handshaking are just making it easier for them to win. We, Town, have no way of distinguishing between a valid VT handshake and a scum false-claiming handshake so we cannot consider any of those who have attempted to handshake as confirmed Town. The scum, however, don’t have this problem and so are able to identify a decent number of VTs, thus reducing the pool of players in which to find power roles. Even if every real VT successfully handshakes, we’re no better off as, most likely, all scum will have claimed VT too. > > If scum don’t have the PM, there’s no problem if all remaining VTs handshake and, according to the numbers presented, we’re likely to win the game solely based on handshaking. Apart from not being much fun, I doubt Mahaloth would have left that loophole open. > > I must still be missing something obvious if no-one sees the same issue. I agree and have been stating for a while that the handshaking is meaningless. It should stop, please ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/442 "2010-08-13T22:04:35Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I agree and have been stating for a while that the handshaking is meaningless. It should stop, please kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/443 "2010-08-13T22:07:44Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I agree and have been stating for a while that the handshaking is meaningless. It should stop, please I second this…at this point the handshake discussion is just noise… Regarding \*\*Chronos \*\*- If I understand correctly, his ‘power’ goes something like this: “I know that **Pleonast** ’s role is ‘Gandalf’, and since in the lore Gandalf was very powerful, it’s likely that he has a power in the game as well, but I don’t know for certain that he does, much less what it might be.” No offense to Chronos, but that seems like a kind of a lame power to me…or am I once again missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/444 "2010-08-13T22:15:58Z")
I don’t know; knowing for sure that a specific player had a specific (probably powerful) role name could be decently useful for Town. Kind of like a one-shot Detective who uses his powers in Night Zero and is guaranteed an interesting result. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/445 "2010-08-13T22:16:23Z")
fuck, **pleo** is **gandalf**. i missed that part. **unvote all**. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/446 "2010-08-13T22:20:14Z")
and are we still counting letters in our pms? or have we totally moved on from that nonsense? i’ve gone through mine three times and still keep getting different numbers. and i still am unsure whether the subject line letters are supposed to be included. crud, this game is keeping me busy. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/447 "2010-08-13T22:24:23Z")
oh shit, that’s right i already unvoted him (must have precognition). **vote cucuy** again. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/448 "2010-08-13T22:37:09Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > **unvote all** > > **vote cucuy** > > policy lurker/non participant vote. That’s not nice. I apologize for not being here earlier. I’ve been checking back since sign-ups to see when the game was beginning, up to Wednesday night (I just missed my PM). Yesterday I wasn’t online, and today I’m trying to catch up. > [@peekercpa](#): > > fuck, **pleo** is **gandalf**. i missed that part. > > **unvote all**. That’s better. 😃 > [@peekercpa](#): > > oh shit, that’s right i already unvoted him (must have precognition). > > **vote cucuy** > > again. :mad: Must. Resist. Urge. To. OMGUS. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/449 "2010-08-13T22:47:19Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Yes, my attempt was to handshake with Vanilla Townies for 2 reasons > > 1. I couldn’t be sure that a power role ownie’s PM might not differ significant;y from mine > 2. By confirming Vanillas we set ourselves up to be NightKilled. Much better to NK the Vanilla’s than the Townies. This handshaking business makes me uncomfortable. How can I be sure that what I post can’t be misinterpreted as scum-tell, or present itself as a power role claim? > [@special\_ed](#): > > Let me demonstrate with a smaller example. \ I understand **Special Ed’s** math, but what would keep scum from killing a confirmed townie on any day? the confirmed pool doesn’t know where scum hides among the power roles; they probably don’t know what the roles are or how many roles there are. Don’t we need to protect town power roles by keeping them hidden within our ranks? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/450 "2010-08-13T22:47:26Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Cucuy(1): Peeker SuburbanPlankton(1): Chronos Chronos(1): Hoopy Hoopy(1): Pleonast \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/451 "2010-08-13T22:48:02Z")
Just a thought: Mahaloth, can you tell us whether there’s any possibility of roles with Day-use powers? I assume not, but it’s worth checking. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/452 "2010-08-13T22:50:26Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > fuck, **pleo** is **gandalf**. i missed that part. > . I think that is just speculation made by suburban. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/453 "2010-08-13T22:54:36Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Of course, since Mahaloth has not posted any role PMs, and since he’s had the help of both sachertorte and storyteller, I must believe that Scum have all the information they’ll need to overcome any attempts at handshaking. So here is something I don’t understand. You made a big deal out of trying to handshake but are now saying that it really had no chance of working anyway. Now I agree that the designers of this game would have every reason to have thought about handshaking and made it impossible but, given that, why try? And why be so, and this is my subjective opinion, disagreeable about it? the arguments with Chronos and Peep. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/454 "2010-08-13T22:55:08Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > **unvote all** > > > > **vote cucuy** > > > > policy lurker/non participant vote. > > That’s not nice. > > I apologize for not being here earlier. I’ve been checking back since sign-ups to see when the game was beginning, up to Wednesday night (I just missed my PM). Yesterday I wasn’t online, and today I’m trying to catch up. > > That’s better. 😃 > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > oh shit, that’s right i already unvoted him (must have precognition). > > > > **vote cucuy** > > > > again. > > :mad: Must. Resist. Urge. To. OMGUS. ok, not a hell of a lot of participation but it made me chuckle. **unvote all** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/455 "2010-08-13T22:57:49Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > the arguments with Chronos and **Peep**. \ it’s **peek** you son of a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/456 "2010-08-13T23:11:13Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > fuck, **pleo** is **gandalf**. i missed that part. > > . > > I think that is just speculation made by suburban. It’s not even speculation. I was just trying to come up with an example of what I thought Chronos was talking about, and I picked those two names. I meant to imply nothing whatosever. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/457 "2010-08-13T23:14:30Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > Of course, since Mahaloth has not posted any role PMs, and since he’s had the help of both sachertorte and storyteller, I must believe that Scum have all the information they’ll need to overcome any attempts at handshaking. > > So here is something I don’t understand. You made a big deal out of trying to handshake but are now saying that it really had no chance of working anyway. Now I agree that the designers of this game would have every reason to have thought about handshaking and made it impossible but, given that, why try? And why be so, and this is my subjective opinion, disagreeable about it? the arguments with Chronos and Peep. **ed** seems to play the same way as i do (and **ed** please feel free to tell my am full of it). which i have no doubt he will do so. as town we need to stir the pot and see what is happening. as scum you typically need at least one stirring the pot as well. town is looking for information and inconsistencies between stated strategies and actions (now that is a scum tell). scum is trying to suss out power roles that really hinder their chance of success. so we play the game that typically boils us. town (and most likely some scum) want to get rid of us because we are hitting too close to the bone or scum just says to heck with it and takes him out at Night. and i don’t want to put words in **ed** ’s mouth. but i play this game for my team. i honestly don’t give a shit about survival if it advances my team’s wincon. woot woot. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/458 "2010-08-14T00:44:46Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > I understand **Special Ed’s** math, but what would keep scum from killing a confirmed townie on any day? the confirmed pool doesn’t know where scum hides among the power roles; they probably don’t know what the roles are or how many roles there are. Don’t we need to protect town power roles by keeping them hidden within our ranks? The scum are going to kill someone every Night. If the scum have to choose between killing a confirmed vanilla town, or an unconfirmed power, scum is basically boned. If they kill vanilla, the power roles have effectively been protected. If they kill a power role, the scum cover has been reduced. Meanwhile, the townies are shrinking the size of the unconfirmed pool with every lynch. Handshaking had a chance of confirming townies. It didn’t pan out perfectly, but what in life does? I’m curious about Chronos’s half-mason claim. Does the other party know Chronos’s identity? Do they know Chronos knows? I suspect there’s more going on here. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/459 "2010-08-14T01:06:14Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > Of course, since Mahaloth has not posted any role PMs, and since he’s had the help of both sachertorte and storyteller, I must believe that Scum have all the information they’ll need to overcome any attempts at handshaking. > > So here is something I don’t understand. You made a big deal out of trying to handshake but are now saying that it really had no chance of working anyway. Now I agree that the designers of this game would have every reason to have thought about handshaking and made it impossible but, given that, why try? And why be so, and this is my subjective opinion, disagreeable about it? the arguments with Chronos and Peep. Had Mahaloth come on and put an end to the attempt to handshake, it would have had some validity. Since he did not, it must have been planned for. It’s worked repeatedly in the past. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/460 "2010-08-14T01:07:43Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > I understand **Special Ed’s** math, but what would keep scum from killing a confirmed townie on any day? the confirmed pool doesn’t know where scum hides among the power roles; they probably don’t know what the roles are or how many roles there are. Don’t we need to protect town power roles by keeping them hidden within our ranks? I was giving an example of why the Scum could not just ignore the confirmed Vanilla and kill the Town power roles. I wasn’t giving an example of something that would work for the Scum. Someone had pointed out how having a bunch of confirmed Townies exposes the power roles. I was pointing out that that is not a bad thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=24)