# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/481 "2010-08-14T08:53:53Z")
so as near as i can tell the best town can expect is a fifty/fifty split. at worst it’s more like two for one to scum. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/482 "2010-08-14T11:08:14Z")
**Ed** so what woudl have been gained if Mahaloth had come in and posted teh vanilla pm? You being confirmed? And if the mod does nothing it’s immediately obviousthat the entire thing is a waste of time and has already been trumoped by game design… Can I ask what the point was? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/483 "2010-08-14T11:51:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Something happened in Weird Wild West here on SDMB I can’t really remember but I think it involved Zeriel and myself > > IIRC, **Meeko** name-claimed early (with the name of a major character), and then the mod announced that the Scum were being given cover names, thereby proving that they hadn’t before, and thus confirming **Meeko**. That would be what happened. Even then, there was conversation on if it really confirmed me or not. But, I think the “no it doesn’t confirm” was the dissenting opinion. Only later did we learn it was truly opinion, as fact proved otherwise. Seems the similar comments in the forbidden board had a leg up here. But then again, thats the entire premise of those boards. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/484 "2010-08-14T11:52:19Z")
NETA : To be clear, I claimed Sawyer, in LOST, not Wild West. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/485 "2010-08-14T11:59:14Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > While there are some similarities in our play styles. I tend to aim more for the comprehensible side of the participation spectrum. > > i think **meeko** would tend to disagree as well as me. Not gonna step into this one. Peeker: Discretion is the better part of Valor. Ed: I’m still not clear on the hand shaking or why a bunch of mute masons move up the J Sexton point list more than power roles. I don’t see the connection between the shake and “Oh noes, now we must kill VT first” by the scum. So, that’s where I am. Peeker is single handedly working to make my posting numbers closer to the average, and he is going far beyond his normal pot stirring to do it this time. [Pot stirring is one thing, commenting on everything, anything, is another.] Ed, I don’t understand _ **some** _ of your play. I know the feeling is Mutual. What else is new? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/486 "2010-08-14T12:09:47Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > Which brings up another question: in that game **USCDiver** was outed as scum, but in fact was a Miller. I’ve followed other games where the Miller situation was addressed, and the general consensus was that the Miller should claim early, like Day 1, to avoid problems later. Would the consensus be the same here? Yeah, and in that game my role PM did not explicitly state I was a miller (something to the effect of “something about that boy ain’t right!”) I had not even considered the possibility it meant I was a miller and so when my name came up Scum I just assumed that the investigator (who had not claimed or been confirmed prior to that IIRC) was lying. Very frustrating for me. So the moral of the story is: if your role PM seems off for some reason, maybe you’re an unknown miller. Ok, just got in from a night shift and I wanted to check in before going to bed. Back this afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/487 "2010-08-14T13:45:47Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > **Ed** so what woudl have been gained if Mahaloth had come in and posted teh vanilla pm? You being confirmed? And if the mod does nothing it’s immediately obviousthat the entire thing is a waste of time and has already been trumoped by game design… > Can I ask what the point was? I would have been confirmed along with anyone else I was able to complete the handshake with. That sorta was the point. Confirming Town players = good ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/488 "2010-08-14T13:49:05Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Ed: I’m still not clear on the hand shaking or why a bunch of mute masons move up the J Sexton point list more than power roles. I don’t see the connection between the shake and “Oh noes, now we must kill VT first” by the scum. Meeko, it’s relatively simple. If we can truly confirm some Town (via a handshake, mod confirmation, a dead detective’s previous investigations and a dead godfather) then we should never ever ever lynch them or Vig them. It makes it easier to find the Scum. Additionally, as has been previously stated, as soon as the number of confirmed Town is greater than half of the number of total players, the Town will win (barring extra kills by the Scum or SK type) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/489 "2010-08-14T14:28:58Z")
and **ed** i fully understand what you were trying to do. i was merely trying to, in my own way, point out that it is only somewhat effective. and that is outside of the metagame aspects of this game. because if i were modding a game it is probably something that i might overlook. but with the mods we have in this one i find it highly unlikely to be of much use. but at least it has gotten people talking and that, in my book, is a good thing. so at least, in that regard, it was a beneficial thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/490 "2010-08-14T15:15:07Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Peeker: Discretion is the better part of Valor. This is Lord of the Rings. I think you mean “Valar” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/491 "2010-08-14T15:28:41Z")
and i’ll play a little devil’s advocate with **ed** because i think ultimately getting people talking is beneficial. in the examples you cite it appears that it does nothing to help town win the game. and if scum are provided a vanilla pm and then you “handshake” all that does is help scum identify nillers from powers. and to be honest with you doesn’t confirm any of the shakers as niller except to the scum team. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/492 "2010-08-14T15:36:56Z")
Not a whole lot of action overnight, as to be expected, but there are a couple items that caught my interest in the last 12 hours or so… \*\*cucuy \*\*finally appeared among us, but has yet to really contribute anything. He makes a couple statements in post [449](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12799259&postcount=449) about handshaking and confirming roles, but those two issues had already been pretty much talked out long before that point. Then comes back a little later to chime in on a discussion about previous Mafia games. But he still hasn’t contributed anything of substance to this game. Not that it tells us anything, but it’s somewhat disappointing. The exchange between \*\*peekercpa \*\*and **special ed** from about posts 460-465 was even more bizarre than normal for this thread. If I were the paranoid type, I’d wonder if there wasn’t some sort of coded message in there… wait, I am the paranoid type…but I’m not sure I’m \*that \*paranoid…yet.. However, I am having a bit of trouble with peeker, as it seems once again that the chaff to wheat ratio is getting quite high. Now, by his own admission he likes to stir the pot ([Post 457](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12799322&postcount=457))…I just wonder if his pot stirring is a good thing for the town at this point. And there was this, spotted by **Astral Rejection** : > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Earlier I said I was going to disregard Pleo’s power claim, but in reviewing the thread I’ve seen something that gives me pause. On page 5, post #244, Pleo says > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > For example, I have no idea what a vanilla role PM looks like. > > I thought his comment earlier was a one-off, but he’s been repeatedly asserting his power status. This seems really suspicious to me. If I had a power role, I’d be keeping quiet about it this early in the game. The only pro-town motivation I can see is that (if he’s vanilla) he’ll draw scum fire and his death will protect any real power roles out there. > > I’ve got my eye on you, Pleo! 🙂 I had completely dismissed Pleonast’s initial claim, but this rather subtle second claim had escaped my notice . It does raise the question of why Pleo seems to be reasserting a power role. Earlier, I was more suspicious of \*\*Chronos \*\* role claim; now I’ve gone the other way. Now, I’m not ‘sure’ of anything at this point. In the past 48 hours I’ve had three or four different people ping my radar; I suspect in the next 5 days there’ll be about 20 more that do the same. But as has been pointed out, we need people talking… Which brings up my last point. By my count we still have 9 players with 5 or fewer posts since the beginning of Night 0 (and I’m including the 'I got the PM" posts in that number). There’s a good chance that there’s scum in there somewhere, but half of those people \*must \*be Town. They need to start contributing. That’s too many lurkers. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/493 "2010-08-14T15:58:41Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > As far as the second question goes, wouldn’t naming the role work? It’s not like we don’t all have a good idea about which character names are likely to be represented in the game. > > I would hesitate to follow this approach. It’s quite possible that Chronos must find and kill a specific character (Gollum must find and kill Sam and Frodo) or some type of recruitment (Grima can recruit Theoden) I had a bit of a hard time with this statement (ed’s reply, just to clarify). \*\*Chronos \*\*had told us “The role name is of an unambiguously good-aligned character, so I trust that that person is Town.”, so I wondered why ed was talking about killing and recruitment. If Chronos is Town with a power role, then he’s not likely to be killing Frodo. And if he’s scum (or 3rd party), then I’d think getting him to reveal the role (as Gadarene suggests) would be a positive thing; if Frodo then turned up dead Tomorrow morning, we’d have a pretty good idea where to start looking for his killer. FTR, I do think it’s probably best for Chronos to keep silent at this point, but i very much diskile ed’s reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/494 "2010-08-14T16:13:54Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Which brings up my last point. By my count we still have 9 players with 5 or fewer posts since the beginning of Night 0 (and I’m including the 'I got the PM" posts in that number). There’s a good chance that there’s scum in there somewhere, but half of those people \*must \*be Town. They need to start contributing. That’s too many lurkers. \ yeh, and the two that stick out like sore thumbs are **nat** and **drain**. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/495 "2010-08-14T16:44:00Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > I would hesitate to follow this approach. It’s quite possible that Chronos must find and kill a specific character (Gollum must find and kill Sam and Frodo) or some type of recruitment (Grima can recruit Theoden) > > I had a bit of a hard time with this statement (ed’s reply, just to clarify). \*\*Chronos \*\*had told us “The role name is of an unambiguously good-aligned character, so I trust that that person is Town.”, so I wondered why ed was talking about killing and recruitment. If Chronos is Town with a power role, then he’s not likely to be killing Frodo. And if he’s scum (or 3rd party), then I’d think getting him to reveal the role (as Gadarene suggests) would be a positive thing; if Frodo then turned up dead Tomorrow morning, we’d have a pretty good idea where to start looking for his killer. > > FTR, I do think it’s probably best for Chronos to keep silent at this point, but i very much diskile ed’s reasoning. I think Ed’s point is more that Chronos might not be who he claims to be, and that he might have a role that would benefit by drawing out town power roles. That’s how I read it, anyway, although I’m not sure how – if this were the case – Chronos giving us the name of the role he claims to know would accomplish ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/496 "2010-08-14T16:45:52Z")
NETA: …his sinister goal. (stupid iPhone) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/497 "2010-08-14T17:01:34Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Which brings up my last point. By my count we still have 9 players with 5 or fewer posts since the beginning of Night 0 (and I’m including the 'I got the PM" posts in that number). There’s a good chance that there’s scum in there somewhere, but half of those people \*must \*be Town. They need to start contributing. That’s too many lurkers. How did you come up with 5 being the threshold number for those who are participating adequately and those who are not? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/498 "2010-08-14T17:03:44Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I think Ed’s point is more that Chronos might not be who he claims to be, and that he might have a role that would benefit by drawing out town power roles. That’s how I read it, anyway, although I’m not sure how – if this were the case – Chronos giving us the name of the role he claims to know would accomplish Yes, that’s what bothers me as well. The only way ed’s statement makes any sense is if \*\*Chronos \*\*is lying (which is always a possibility), and I don’t think his argument is logical even in that case. If Chronos is lying, then there’s no risk to anyone if he tells us what he ‘knows’, because he’s making the whole thing up in the first place. If he’s telling the truth, then I still don’t know how saying “I know which player has the identity ‘Elrond’” is going to hurt anyone, but I can’t see how it can help anyone but Chronos either. Since we can’t verify whether of not Chronos is telling the truth, and the information he claims to have doesn’t seem to be of any value at this point, I think he should keep it to himself. Perhaps there will come a time when it will be valuable; if so it should be saved for that time. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/499 "2010-08-14T17:12:00Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > How did you come up with 5 being the threshold number for those who are participating adequately and those who are not? I pulled it out of thin air, I suppose because it’s one of those ‘nice round numbers’. I suppose I could have picked 8, which was the median number of posts per poster at the time (assuming both my counting and Excel skills are up to snuff). That would have raised the number of ‘non-participatory’ posters to either 11 or 12, depending on whether or not we’re counting ‘less than’ or ‘less than or equal to’. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/500 "2010-08-14T17:13:16Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > I think Ed’s point is more that Chronos might not be who he claims to be, and that he might have a role that would benefit by drawing out town power roles. That’s how I read it, anyway, although I’m not sure how – if this were the case – Chronos giving us the name of the role he claims to know would accomplish > > Yes, that’s what bothers me as well. The only way ed’s statement makes any sense is if \*\*Chronos \*\*is lying (which is always a possibility), and I don’t think his argument is logical even in that case. > > If Chronos is lying, then there’s no risk to anyone if he tells us what he ‘knows’, because he’s making the whole thing up in the first place. If he’s telling the truth, then I still don’t know how saying “I know which player has the identity ‘Elrond’” is going to hurt anyone, but I can’t see how it can help anyone but Chronos either. > > Since we can’t verify whether of not Chronos is telling the truth, and the information he claims to have doesn’t seem to be of any value at this point, I think he should keep it to himself. Perhaps there will come a time when it will be valuable; if so it should be saved for that time. Well, there could be some benefit to the town if Chronos revealed the information. Imagine he does know who “Elrond” is. Then the “Elrond” player could ask themselves “Is chronos treating me as he should given that he knows I’m Elrond.” Also, if that person is vanilla, then they would have the option of confirming the information (and thus partially confirming Chronos) if Chronos was up for a lynch. No strong feelings on this, though I’m concerned about Chronos’s play. He’s created a minor problem for us here and that might be anti town in effect, if not intention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=26)