# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/581 "2010-08-15T23:21:44Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Hoopy(1): Pleonast Chronos(1): Specialed Suburban(1): Telcontar\*\* Day ends Thursday, August 19, at Noon Eastern. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/582 "2010-08-15T23:32:41Z")
**Gadarene** , there’s a big difference between ‘not following canon’ and ‘not being IN the canon’. I think your questioning whether anyone else has a name ‘not following canon’ is suspicious. I think the others are correct that players having names not in the canon would be quite unusual and any player whose role name is not in agreement with their alignment is not going to pipe up now. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/583 "2010-08-15T23:37:31Z")
I agree that I may have phrased it inelegantly. [OOG] I was busting out of a poker tournament at the time on a really stupid play, and it’s possible I was a little distracted. 🙂 [/OOG] ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/584 "2010-08-16T00:00:17Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I am unclear about how you can make comments “in retrospect” regarding special ed’s handshake attempt. In Random Mafia, Peeker was town who was lynched for being cryptic with his name claim. In Lord of the Rings mafia, ed is what? and he hasn’t been lynched? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say there. Snipped, to address the clarification issue : I simply mean, I wonder the motivation that Ed has for shaking in a … not so easy to understand manner. I got into that tumble, and I just wonder if I should have. Hence, in retrospect. **In retrospect to my part there, and the entire “shake” in general** , if it is indeed a shake. I’m not sure if you can call it a shake if it has no proof. It’s like nailing Jello to the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/585 "2010-08-16T00:53:24Z")
Quoth **Suburban\_Plankton** : > [@](#): > > As for being paranoid, of that I am guilty as charged. Can you blame me? As far as I know, there are 22 different people in this game who want me dead. That can only be true if you’re a Serial Killer or other malicious third party. If you’re Town, then there are somewhere in the high teens who don’t want you dead (though we may not know that yet). And if you’re Scum, then you already know specifically which folks don’t want you dead. Meanwhile: Since and including his confirmation post, **Oredigger** has posted only four times: Two were basically just saying “this is interesting”, one is asking about a reference made to a previous game, and one was explaining a bit of board functionality. **Little Plastic Ninja** has posted thrice since and including confirmation. Two of the posts have essentially no content, but one does at least have some handshake stuff (stating that her role PM mentions Sauron three times). **Nanook** has two posts, both with real content, but still, there’s only two of them. I know that **Drain Bead** just started participating, and she’d better make a good showing now she’s here. The search time limit is getting too annoying for me to check the rest of the low-volume posters right now, but if you’re not participating, you need to. This level of participation is bad. We (by which I mean those guys) really need to step it up. And I’m still not sure about **USCDiver**. He claims that his role PM agrees with the handshakes given by **special ed** , **Wanderers** , and **Meeko**. Could you three please confirm or deny his own handshake (four Ds in the last section)? I’m also still uneasy about him saying that he agreed with “all”, when even in **Telcontar** ’s post there were already some inconsistent ones ( **Gadarene** disagreeing with **Wanderers** and **Hoopy Frood** on the number of Ys). The scenario I’m seeing: There are multiple different Town PMs, but the Scum don’t know that, having only one sample of the vanilla PM (or all of the samples they have are the same format). Scummy **USCDiver** sees that handshaking is going on, and since he knows that everyone who’s shook is being honest (either they’re not on his team, and so assumed honest, or they’re reading from the same sample PM he is), he says that his agrees with all of them, without actually bothering to check. This is a mistake that I think a Scum would be more likely to make than a Townie, since a Townie would not know whether previous shakes were honest, and would be looking for inconsistencies in the hope of finding a Scum. Between his ignoring of **Gadarene** ’s handshake, and the implausibility of his, **ed** ’s, **Wanderers** ’, and **Meeko** ’s PMs all happening to be the same when the evidence is that there seem to be multiple variations, I’m comfortable with **Vote USCDiver** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/586 "2010-08-16T01:32:43Z")
ok, going into the lurker pool. **vote nookie, aka coca cola man**. now **nook** is typically stoic. and he got a town slam dunk win by not posting but … time to weigh in my friend. and if you are not that is cool but then you deserve the vote. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/587 "2010-08-16T01:37:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This level of participation is bad. \ ok **ed** and **meeko** we’d better not fucking let him down. i’m ready to rumble. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/588 "2010-08-16T01:41:30Z")
and i was just looking at the number of posts and **chronos** seems to be more engaged than history would suggest. plus **gadarene** (whom i haven’t played with in a while also seems to be a little more verbose than normal). but that could be faulty memory on my part, so meh. and **coca cola** seems to be a little more reticent than i recall being normal. just some observations on the volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/589 "2010-08-16T01:53:06Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Hoopy(1): Pleonast Chronos(1): Specialed Suburban(1): Telcontar USCDiver(1): Chronos Nanook(1): Peeker \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/590 "2010-08-16T01:53:19Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and i was just looking at the number of posts and **chronos** seems to be more engaged than history would suggest. plus **gadarene** (whom i haven’t played with in a while also seems to be a little more verbose than normal). Heh. I dunno if I’ve played with you in the past, but this is _not_ more verbose than normal for me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/591 "2010-08-16T01:58:20Z")
NETA: Aw, hell, let’s get some momentum going.\* Although **Suburban Plankton** and **Pleonast** have also pinged me pretty hard, **Chronos** makes a persuasive case with respect to **USCDiver** , and that’s where my vote is going for now. **color=blue** Vote USCDiver[/color] \*I’m gonna really regret phrasing it that way, aren’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/592 "2010-08-16T01:59:21Z")
Bleargh. Vote USCDiver ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/593 "2010-08-16T02:05:05Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Gadarene](#): > > > > Does anyone have a name that _doesn’t_ follow canon? > > quick question are you asking whether someone has a name that is not in canon or a name that might be counter to canon. > > because the first i can understand. if someone claims batman i will call bullshit. [Sorry, I’m a little drunk.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGACNG7-zsI) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/594 "2010-08-16T02:58:04Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > quick question are you asking whether someone has a name that is not in canon or a name that might be counter to canon. > > > > because the first i can understand. if someone claims batman i will call bullshit. > > [Sorry, I’m a little drunk.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGACNG7-zsI) wait a sam hill moment. i am the only person allowed to post cryptic youtube videos. you know that is a lynching offense in these parts. hee hee, cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/595 "2010-08-16T03:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > and i was just looking at the number of posts and chronos seems to be more engaged than history would suggest. That’s probably because of my playstyle: I prefer to work with hard information, and things subject to mathematical analysis. Usually, there’s not much of either Day 1, but the whole handshake/hash business is very mathematical, and I’m in possession of (at least a little) hard information. In other words, I’m more engaged because the kinds of topics I like to get engaged in happen to have come up. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/596 "2010-08-16T03:58:04Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Telcontar](#): > > > > Two (as best I can determine) unrelated points: > > 1.) One of the few reasons to have a real night zero is to allow players who can only talk a night a chance to speak before day 1. That we had a night zero, which threw off the game schedule causing an overlong day 1, might suggest that scum can’t talk during the day. Not sure if that affects anything. > > I too am suspicious of SP for the smudging which I’ve brught up mostly in relation to myself. > > However, as to the Night 0. Some moderators use it to allow players top confirm. It makes sure everyone is here and ready before we get started on thh game itself. > > Does anyone recall the Scum’s talking ability in Mahloth’s previous games? > > I think Lost, Weird Wild West, Harry Potter. Did I miss any? Harry Potter was night only for scum. Also, If harry potter was any evidence Mahaloth doesn’t include team mate names for players who know their teammates ie scum or masons. It was actually a problem for the masons in harry potter since one of them never signed into the mason board so the masons didn’t know who each other was. I’m leaning towards a SP lynch right now. The main reason is the “for all I know 22 people are out to kill me” comment. In order of precedence: 1. This comment betrays a survival imperative. While it is important for town to avoid being mislynched: the over paranoid, must survive mentalities are generally reserved for scum and PFK players whose death represents a far greater net loss than that of a town player. 2. I made a question earlier about the “how did you come about to five posts as being unsatisfactory”. His answer was what I expected to hear, but I find of recent scum try to incite a LtL as an easy mislynch without actually voting. It accomplishes three goals a) a mislynch b) lots of suspicion surrounding those players who vote an absentee town player c) it enables him to draw focus to those players least likely to raise a defense. **vote Suburban Plankton** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/597 "2010-08-16T04:14:21Z")
I’m one of the low-post-count folks, although at 10 posts, I’m not doing as bad as some of them. I don’t want to hide behind the fact that this is my first game of mafia, so you’ve got my promise that I’ll do my best to do better. Just accept that most people have already said what I was gonna say! I have issues with a couple of things right now. First off: > [@Telcontrar](#): > > 1.) Special Ed is being Special Ed. This doesn’t indicate whether he is town or scum > 2.) Peeker is being Peeker. Same Nobody should get a pass for “just being themselves.” Nobody. Their actions always mean something, even if we can’t suss it out quite yet. You’re not necessarily giving them a pass, merely saying that it doesn’t indicate their status. I’d agree with that NOW, but there could be some good clues hidden in their history. Second, I read SP’s post about “22 people trying to kill him” as a joke. I’d need a hell of a lot more to go on than one silly comment. Lastly, Chronos makes a compelling argument against UCSDiver. Agreeing with “all” of the posted handshakes is exactly the kind of mistake scum would make trying to fit in. I read the HP mafia game though, and there’s some sort of stigma attached to being the third person to vote for someone. I’m not entirely sure why it’s a scum tell; could somebody explain it to me? Regardless, vote UCSDiver. We’re still early in day 1, so expect this vote to change if somebody else pops out even scummier. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/598 "2010-08-16T04:17:01Z")
Oops, I transposed the letters of his name. Sorry USCDiver 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/599 "2010-08-16T04:40:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I read the HP mafia game though, and there’s some sort of stigma attached to being the third person to vote for someone. I’m not entirely sure why it’s a scum tell; could somebody explain it to me? The idea is that the first people on a bandwagon and the last people on a bandwagon would look suspicious if/when the person comes up Town, but the folks in the middle less so. A Scum might wait to see that a mislynch is gaining momentum before joining in on it, so they’re not standing alone trying to push for a Townie’s lynch, but they don’t want to wait too long, or they look like me-too voters who aren’t actually adding anything. Of course, by now, Scum knows that the number 3 position is a Scum tell, so they won’t do it, but Town knows that Scum knows that, and so will be looking at people who actively avoid being the third vote, and Scum knows this, too, and so on, so it doesn’t really mean much of anything any more. And you should weigh in on topics, even if others have already said what you think. Remember, not everyone in this game is being honest: You don’t know if the others who said those things actually mean them, and we don’t know if you actually mean what you say, and just because someone else said something you agree with, doesn’t mean everyone else in the game agrees with it. Discussion, by everyone, is essential. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/600 "2010-08-16T04:42:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I’m still not sure about **USCDiver**. He claims that his role PM agrees with the handshakes given by **special ed** , **Wanderers** , and **Meeko**. Could you three please confirm or deny his own handshake (four Ds in the last section)? I’m also still uneasy about him saying that he agreed with “all”, when even in **Telcontar** ’s post there were already some inconsistent ones ( **Gadarene** disagreeing with **Wanderers** and **Hoopy Frood** on the number of Ys). > > The scenario I’m seeing: There are multiple different Town PMs, but the Scum don’t know that, having only one sample of the vanilla PM (or all of the samples they have are the same format). Scummy **USCDiver** sees that handshaking is going on, and since he knows that everyone who’s shook is being honest (either they’re not on his team, and so assumed honest, or they’re reading from the same sample PM he is), he says that his agrees with all of them, without actually bothering to check. This is a mistake that I think a Scum would be more likely to make than a Townie, since a Townie would not know whether previous shakes were honest, and would be looking for inconsistencies in the hope of finding a Scum. > > Between his ignoring of **Gadarene** ’s handshake, and the implausibility of his, **ed** ’s, **Wanderers** ’, and **Meeko** ’s PMs all happening to be the same when the evidence is that there seem to be multiple variations, I’m comfortable with > > **Vote USCDiver** Ok, first of all. Everyone please go back and read \*\*Telcontar’s \*\*post in [#202](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12794215&postcount=202) which is his summary of the handshake discussion at that point. Look for the players who are actually making handshake attempts focusing on the ‘Last Section’ (namely **ed** , \*\*Skeezix \*\*(incomprehensible to me), **Wanders** , and **Meeko** ). \*\*Gadarene’s \*\*post only serves to disagree with **Wanders** : “I’m only counting 5 Y’s, and I’ve gone over it a bunch of times to make sure.” I don’t count that as a handshake attempt, I count it as a disagreement. So in the end, my PM agrees with everyone else, but NOT with Gadarene. And unless I’m missing something, my reading of the disagreements is mostly based on definitions of Sections and Wincons and not on letter counts. And to \*\*Chronos \*\*in particular, you have already claimed to have a non-Vanilla role, so it seems a bit disingenuous to make decisions based on discussion of a role PM you claim never to have seen. Why not focus on the person who has disagreed on letter counts and not made any other independent attempt to handshake? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=31)