# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/601 "2010-08-16T05:09:14Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Woohoo, now we can start talking about handshakes and name/role claims! Just kidding. > > After reviewing Telcontar’s summary of the handshakes, I can say my role PM agrees with them all. Also I have 4 d’s in my last section/paragraph. You do seem to be making an honest effort to add to the handshaking. It’s suspicious that you’d agree with all of them, but volunteering more information seems more town to me. I’ll let it go for now. Unvote USCDiver My first vote was good while it lasted! ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/602 "2010-08-16T06:25:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Suburban\_Plankton** : > > > [@](#): > > > > As for being paranoid, of that I am guilty as charged. Can you blame me? As far as I know, there are 22 different people in this game who want me dead. > > That can only be true if you’re a Serial Killer or other malicious third party. If you’re Town, then there are somewhere in the high teens who don’t want you dead (though we may not know that yet). And if you’re Scum, then you already know specifically which folks don’t want you dead. > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I’m leaning towards a SP lynch right now. The main reason is the “for all I know 22 people are out to kill me” comment. > > In order of precedence: > > 1. This comment betrays a survival imperative. While it is important for town to avoid being mislynched: the over paranoid, must survive mentalities are generally reserved for scum and PFK players whose death represents a far greater net loss than that of a town player. > > 2. I made a question earlier about the “how did you come about to five posts as being unsatisfactory”. His answer was what I expected to hear, but I find of recent scum try to incite a LtL as an easy mislynch without actually voting. It accomplishes three goals a) a mislynch b) lots of suspicion surrounding those players who vote an absentee town player c) it enables him to draw focus to those players least likely to raise a defense. **Skeezix** , I’ve read this last bit three times, and I’m not sure what you’re trying to say… And to both you and Chronos, please tell me: How many of the 22 players in this game besides yourself do \*you \*trust aren’t trying to kill you at this point? (OK, for Chronos, the answer might be “one”, but you get the point) > [@Telcontar](#): > > Oh, my read on the various major events: > 1.) Special Ed is being Special Ed. This doesn’t indicate whether he is town or scum > 2.) Peeker is being Peeker. Same > 3.) Chronos was clumsy, but I’m inclined to trust him for the moment. If he’s still alive in a few days I’ll A.) be surprised and B.) reconsider. > 4.) Pleonast’s claim is currently meaningless. Let the scum and the doctor figure out what to do with it. What are the first two of these statements supposed to mean? Because someone is “being themselves” we’re not supposed to give any weight to what they say? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/603 "2010-08-16T06:44:01Z")
There’s a difference between trying to kill you and wanting to kill you. Right now, there is one person trying to kill me, about 4 or 5 people (maybe 6, if it’s a largish Scum team and a serial killer) who want to kill me, and about 16-18 people who don’t want to kill me (possibly including the one who’s trying to kill me), but who don’t know it yet. And aside from the one person currently trying to kill me, and the one person I know doesn’t want to kill me (but who might not know that), I don’t know anything about which person is what. Nor do I hold ill will towards anyone for it: After all, I might end up being the one trying to kill or wanting to kill them. **USCDiver** , I’m still waiting to hear back from the folks you claimed to agree with. I’m not going after **Gadarene** , because there seems to be enough other disagreements (I’m pretty sure I remember others, but it’s too late right now to go double-check) that it looks like there really are multiple versions of the PM. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/604 "2010-08-16T06:51:08Z")
Or, to rephrase that: Less than half of you are not half so dead as I would like, and I don’t know which more than half of you I like half so well as you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/605 "2010-08-16T07:26:00Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > My concern is that Suburban Plankton has raised the level of suspicion against almost half the players in the game, while not actually casting a vote and going on record. It’s what I did as scum, because helped town kill itself while keeping my hands clean. I think your math is a little off. Read your own post; there were six different people that I mentioned. Six is not quite “almost half the players in the game” (unless of course you’re counting the other 8 people I called out collectively for being lurkers). We’re in the middle of a very long Day 1. I’m suspicious of everyone at this point. My suspicions are wrong in most of these cases, but the only way to figure out which is which is to voice them, and see what the responses are. And whaddaya know, the people I’m suspicious about are for the most part the people who’ve had the most to say (cucuy being the obvious exception). Ironically, it seems my talkativeness has raised some suspicions 🙂 But anyway, since we’re finally past the halfway point, I can go ahead and put my money where my mouth is. **vote peekercpa** peeker has posted far more than anyone else in this game, but I can’t seem to find where he’s actually said much. There were lots and lots of posts about handshakes. There was the discussion about the differences between a ‘paragraph’ and a ‘section’. He got all over \*\*Gadarene \*\*for mentioning ‘ring’ and ‘Gollum’ in a Lord of the Rings themed game. He throws votes out left and right, but only against lurkers. Apparently this is all part of “peeker being peeker”, but that doesn’t excuse him. It \*seems \*like he’s had quite a lot to say in this game, but I’m struggling to find a whole lot of content. As I said before, there’s to much chaff and too little wheat, and that makes me think he’s got something to hide. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/606 "2010-08-16T07:41:00Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **cucuy** , have you ever gone by another name? I don’t recall playing with you on here, but maybe I have and just don’t know it. I’ve always been **cucuy** on the SMDB. This is my second game here. But we’ve played together on Idle’s board: I’m **timmy** over there. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/607 "2010-08-16T07:55:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **cucuy** , you asked about how hashes work. Basically, you take a plaintext message of any length in, and the hash function turns it into a random-looking string of fixed length. The same input will always give the same output, but given only the output, it’s extremely difficult (certainly, beyond the resources of anyone in a game like this) to find an input that gives that output. So if someone posts a hash, and then later posts a message that produces that hash, it essentially guarantees that that’s how they got the hash in the first place, thus guaranteeing that they had the message at that time. But someone who just had the hash would not be able to use it to determine what the message was until they were given it. Thanks, I have a better understanding of this concept. My concern is, if town PMs are not alike, or based on the same template, it could lead to confusion over alignment. If scum have been given VT templates as cover, it would make sense that VTs would have varying templates in order to identify their alignment in case scum produce a PM of their cover. (Does this make sense?) ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/608 "2010-08-16T08:03:36Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > [@USCDiver](#): > > > > Woohoo, now we can start talking about handshakes and name/role claims! Just kidding. > > > > After reviewing Telcontar’s summary of the handshakes, I can say my role PM agrees with them all. Also I have 4 d’s in my last section/paragraph. > > You do seem to be making an honest effort to add to the handshaking. It’s suspicious that you’d agree with all of them, but volunteering more information seems more town to me. I’ll let it go for now. /Snipped I understand it’s Day 1 and your first game but what’s up with this? You voted **USCDiver** based on the case presented by **Chronos** which makes the assumption that **USCDiver** is scum with access to a sample PM. You then unvote based on a comment made by **USCDiver** 300 posts earlier which seems town to you - which happens to be the post others are voting him for. If you were happy to vote for him based on the assumption that he had access to a sample PM, why are you now happy to unvote him because he used information plausibly from that same sample PM to further the handshake effort? Something’s not right here. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/609 "2010-08-16T08:13:14Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I was indeed ‘calling you out’, not just for being late to the party, but by being late and then making several posts that had nothing of substance in them. As has been pointed out, lurking is often seen as a ‘scum tactic’; posting nothing but ‘fluff’ is even more suspicious. Again, I fail to see how my posts are fluff. And what is your criteria for judging me to be lurking? > [@](#): > > At the time I posted that, there were a number of players who had contributed very little to the discussion. The intent of my statement was to bring that fact to light, in hopes that those players would contribute more. We can’t make any informed decisions without people making posts for us to base those decisions off of, and frankly the game is much less fun when there are only a handful of people participating. > > On the other end of the spectrum: as I write this post the top three contributors have as many posts between them as the other 20 players combined. One of those happens to be **peekercpa**. I have already mentioned that I don’t care for his posting style; I think there’s way too much fluff. That may just be his posting style, or it may be indicative that he’s trying to ‘muddy the waters’, which would definitely be ‘anti-Town’ behavior. > > So in answer to your implied question “Exactly how many posts do I think each player should be making?” The answer is “Enough posts, and with enough substance, that I don’t think you’re trying to hide anything, and not so many that I think you’re trying to create confusion.” I hope that clears things up. 🙂 Not really. You seem to have an arbitrary system of accounting based upon what is posted. > [@](#): > > I think the biggest problem right now is that we’re still in ‘mid-morning’ on Day 1, so there’s not a whole lot else to talk about. Once we get through the first full Day/Night cycle, the discussions will hopefully be a lot more focused, because we’ll have a couple kills (or maybe more, or less, either of which result will tell us something about the structure of the game), we might get some information from Power roles, and we can start looking for real inconsistencies in players postings. That’s when the real fun will begin. Now you’re making sense. Unfortunately it goes against the grain of what you’ve been previously saying. There’s going to be discussion regarding everything under the sun about mafia, and some OOG comments peripherally connected to the game as played, filling the pages on Day 1. We must wade through the posts and glean what we can to prepare for Day 2, 3, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![cucuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@cucuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cucuy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/610 "2010-08-16T08:32:55Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > 2.) I’ve been growing increasingly suspicious of suburban plankton. He has been smudging a surprising number of players, often for fairly innocuous reasons. If he were scum, this could be a series of attempts to see what kind of cases float. Of course, it could also be vigorous scum hunting but, as it is Day 1, I’m going to be a tad bold and vote based on it. I’ve noticed this to be the case as well. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I think your math is a little off. Read your own post; there were six different people that I mentioned. Six is not quite “almost half the players in the game” (unless of course you’re counting the other 8 people I called out collectively for being lurkers). > > We’re in the middle of a very long Day 1. I’m suspicious of everyone at this point. My suspicions are wrong in most of these cases, but the only way to figure out which is which is to voice them, and see what the responses are. And whaddaya know, the people I’m suspicious about are for the most part the people who’ve had the most to say (cucuy being the obvious exception). Ironically, it seems my talkativeness has raised some suspicions 🙂 You’ve been busy smudging people. And now going after **peeker** “for being peeker” is hardly a valid vote. As for the ones you consider to be lurking, can you give a substantial reason for _not_ voting them? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/611 "2010-08-16T10:00:08Z")
For what it’s worth, I agree with USC’s 4 d’s ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/612 "2010-08-16T10:12:17Z")
**Astral’s** vote and quick unvote of USC concerns me. Astral votes USCat 5:14 based on Chronos’ analysis and USC’s agreeing with all hand shakes. USC posts at 5:42 on the general topic but nor particularly responding to Astral Astral unvotes at 6:09 quoting a USC post which was available before Astral cast the original vote. And on reread I note that Guiri has picked up on this too. This does not sit well with me. Smacks of “Must get a vote out there to avoid suspicion” **vote Astral Rejections** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/613 "2010-08-16T12:13:30Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > This level of participation is bad. > > \ > > ok **ed** and **meeko** we’d better not fucking let him down. > > i’m ready to rumble. I’m a bit behind on events in the game. I want to catch up before I move further. I want to review Chronos and apparently now Plankton. A few other things I want to look at, too. This week [Ironically, ending on Thursday] is busy for me, suffice to say, I found some work this week. JUST this week. Good news, its 19 an hour though. > [@peekercpa](#): > > wait a sam hill moment. i am the only person allowed to post cryptic youtube videos. > > you know that is a lynching offense in these parts. Well, it has been a lynching offense, not so much in these parts, more likely in _those_ parts. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/614 "2010-08-16T12:50:10Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You do seem to be making an honest effort to add to the handshaking. It’s suspicious that you’d agree with all of them, but volunteering more information seems more town to me. I’ll let it go for now. > > Unvote USCDiver > > My first vote was good while it lasted! Yeah, I’m with \*\*Wanders \*\*and \*\*Guiri \*\*here. I appreciate the unvote, but I’m not sure what it was in the meantime that changed your mind. You’re quoting the post that began the whole confusion in the first place. **Vote Astral Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/615 "2010-08-16T12:53:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **USCDiver** , I’m still waiting to hear back from the folks you claimed to agree with. I’m not going after **Gadarene** , because there seems to be enough other disagreements (I’m pretty sure I remember others, but it’s too late right now to go double-check) that it looks like there really are multiple versions of the PM. I remember other’s too, but while I was reading them and looking at my role PM, my impression was that most of the disagreements were based on semantics (the difference between a paragraph and a section for instance) and not over the actual substance of the PM. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/616 "2010-08-16T12:55:03Z")
NETA: Ack! that should be “others”… where’d that apostrophe come from? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/617 "2010-08-16T12:55:43Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > > [@Meeko](#): > > > > Both seem to be all bark, no bite. I wonder if the Hash code talk wasn’t concocted in a parallel thread, off board. > > > > \ > > > > I begin to wonder if the second question isn’t instead, a “yes”. [Instead of a No Comment.] That is, I would bet we have a 24/7 scum board. > > Can you go into a little more detail about why you think there is 24/7 scum board? The mods have given no indication of this and I’m not seeing anything in the hash discussion that indicates any kind of coordination. This smells of PIS. And this smells of accusing an easy target (sorry, **Meeko** , but you have to admit people get into it with you early and you tend to get a little paranoid over it and get yourself in trouble) of PIS for a statement that is no different than anything else **Meeko** usually does while playing this game. Heck, the statement wasn’t even one of knowledge or information–he says “I would bet,” which to me indicates that there is another option that one could bet on. That statement isn’t even information, so to accuse **Meeko** of PIS for it seems like a real reach. I’ve caught Scum trying to use this tactic before. A lot. **vote USCDiver** If this were a multi-vote game, I’d be putting another one on **Suburban Plankton** , for being all over the damn map. Going from voting for lurkers to voting **peeker** for noising up the thread is just…strange. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/618 "2010-08-16T13:03:42Z")
I don’t think \*\*Meeko \*\*is being an easy target in this game. To the contrary, he’s been much more comprehensible that I remember from his previous games. I was simply trying to get him to explain a bit more why he thought there was some coordination in the hash discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/619 "2010-08-16T13:07:33Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@Telcontar](#): > > > > Oh, my read on the various major events: > > 1.) Special Ed is being Special Ed. This doesn’t indicate whether he is town or scum > > 2.) Peeker is being Peeker. Same > > 3.) Chronos was clumsy, but I’m inclined to trust him for the moment. If he’s still alive in a few days I’ll A.) be surprised and B.) reconsider. > > 4.) Pleonast’s claim is currently meaningless. Let the scum and the doctor figure out what to do with it. > > What are the first two of these statements supposed to mean? Because someone is “being themselves” we’re not supposed to give any weight to what they say? Some people, particularly yourself, seem to find their playstyles suspicious because they are strange. Having seen Ed play before as town, I know that his town play looks more or less like this. This doesn’t imply that he is town, but does mean that his current behavior isn’t a sign that he is not town. Peeker I know mostly be reputation, but I my understanding is that he’s always like this, and thus his behavior is no more likely to mean he’s scum in this game than in any other. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/620 "2010-08-16T13:20:42Z")
One person is currently trying to kill you, **Chronos**? Is this a reference to something in particular? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=32)