# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/641 "2010-08-16T16:18:49Z")
**Chronos** hasn’t expressed his reasons for being reluctant to provide the name, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/642 "2010-08-16T16:23:45Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > what is it that i have posted that makes you convinced i am scum and deserving a vote? > > > > or is it just that i post too much? now if it’s because the volume of posting i fail to see why voting someone for posting too much is such a heinous offense that they get a vote. > > > > but you don’t want to vote for lurkers because posting volume doesn’t seem to indicate anything, right? > > > > oh shit, except in my case. > > It’s not the quantity, it’s the quality. Too many of your posts don’t contribute anything to the discussion. I’m at work at the moment so I don’t have time to go back over each of your almost 100 posts (since the beginning of Night 0) in detail at the moment, but the large number of ‘throwaway’ posts is distracting to me. And I figure that anyone who is deliberately causing distractions is likely up to no good. > > I admit, it’s not the strongest argument ever put forth, but it’s only Day 1. There’s not a whole lot of iron-clad evidence to go on at this point. If and when someone makes a stronger case, I’ll gladly change my vote. With almost 3 full days left until lynching, I’m not too concerned about it yet. wonderful. a vote for being chatty and participatory. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/643 "2010-08-16T16:34:08Z")
Alright I’m back from my weekend and finally caught up and what do you know it only took me 2.5 hours to read it all. As I was reading I pulled any quotes that seemed off to my some of them have already been addressed but I wanted my suspicions on the record. Basically there were two people that are really pinging me one is **Suburban Plankton** and the other is **Astral Rejection**. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > If I understand correctly, his ‘power’ goes something like this: “I know that **Pleonast** ’s role is ‘Gandalf’, and since in the lore Gandalf was very powerful, it’s likely that he has a power in the game as well, but I don’t know for certain that he does, much less what it might be.” > > No offense to Chronos, but that seems like a kind of a lame power to me…or am I once again missing something? I don’t understand why it was necessary to tell Chronos that the power he’s magic bagging is useless. It doesn’t add anything to the discussion of what Chronos should do and it doesn’t help decided what Chronos should do. It originally read as a smudge since call the role lame would offend Chronos only if he made it up. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And there was this, spotted by **Astral Rejection** : > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > Earlier I said I was going to disregard Pleo’s power claim, but in reviewing the thread I’ve seen something that gives me pause. On page 5, post #244, Pleo says > > I thought his comment earlier was a one-off, but he’s been repeatedly asserting his power status. This seems really suspicious to me. If I had a power role, I’d be keeping quiet about it this early in the game. The only pro-town motivation I can see is that (if he’s vanilla) he’ll draw scum fire and his death will protect any real power roles out there. > > > > I’ve got my eye on you, Pleo! 🙂 > > I had completely dismissed Pleonast’s initial claim, but this rather subtle second claim had escaped my notice . It does raise the question of why Pleo seems to be reasserting a power role. Earlier, I was more suspicious of \*\*Chronos \*\* role claim; now I’ve gone the other way. I grabbed this one for two reasons, one was Astral Rejection grabbing Pleo’s quote which doesn’t do anything pro town. On one hand it alerts the scum further to Pleo being a power role or secondly it smudges pleo for lying neither are good. The second part is why Pleo slipping in more about being a power role has any affect on SP believing Chronos’ claim. Despite SP’s stated belief that we’re all trying to kill him it sure doesn’t seem to take much to get him on someone’s side. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m not pretending anything. You said that it was possible \*\*Chronos \*\*might be trying to kill or recruit a certain character, and for that reason he shouldn’t reveal the role that he has knowledge of. I disagreed. I don’t think there would be harm in him revealing nothing more than a character name, since that in itself conveys no information. The person who has that role would then know that either a)Chronos has information about him/her, or b) Chronos is a bit fat liar who happened to guess the name of a major lore figure correctly. If and when that player was facing a possible lynching, they would need to determine whether to trust Chronos or not. Hopefully, by that time they would have considerably more information than we have now. Of course this assumes that the name Chronos names is actually in use in the game. If Chronos were lying, he might pick the name ‘Samwise Gamgee’, but there might not be a Sam in the game. But nobody would no that until the game ended, so CHronos information would still be meaningless. > > In any case, there would be no harm in revealing the _character name only_, but neither would there be any benefit. And for that reason, I think that Chronos should not announce the name of the role. We don’t need to muddy the waters further with useless information. > > Actually, there is one way that Chronos naming the role would be ‘useful’. That is if it were followed by a mass name claim. It has already been more than adequately explained why this would be a Very Bad Thing. Chronos didn’t actually call for a name claim in Post 501, but he came pretty darn close. I don’t think he’s scum, because his ‘mistake’ would have been that much worse (and therefore that much less likely to have been made in the first place), but there’s something about his posts that doesn’t sit at all well. Of course now SP goes back the other way on Chronos but then again doesn’t. Despite listing all of the ways that Chronos is not being helpful, how he almost was helpful but not quite and that his posts are off SP still isn’t invested enough to vote against Chronos. I guess Pleo’s second soft claim really had some weight behind it. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > [@USCDiver](#): > > > > Woohoo, now we can start talking about handshakes and name/role claims! Just kidding. > > > > After reviewing Telcontar’s summary of the handshakes, I can say my role PM agrees with them all. Also I have 4 d’s in my last section/paragraph. > > You do seem to be making an honest effort to add to the handshaking. It’s suspicious that you’d agree with all of them, but volunteering more information seems more town to me. I’ll let it go for now. > Unvote USCDiver > > My first vote was good while it lasted! I know this has been covered but how does a post that was made before you voted all of a sudden convince you that Diver isn’t scum especially considering that this post was the reason you voted for him in the first place? > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > \*\* vote peekercpa\*\* > > peeker has posted far more than anyone else in this game, but I can’t seem to find where he’s actually said much. There were lots and lots of posts about handshakes. There was the discussion about the differences between a ‘paragraph’ and a ‘section’. He got all over \*\*Gadarene \*\*for mentioning ‘ring’ and ‘Gollum’ in a Lord of the Rings themed game. He throws votes out left and right, but only against lurkers. > > Apparently this is all part of “peeker being peeker”, but that doesn’t excuse him. It \*seems \*like he’s had quite a lot to say in this game, but I’m struggling to find a whole lot of content. As I said before, there’s to much chaff and too little wheat, and that makes me think he’s got something to hide. So after all of the weird suspicions being tossed around by SP when he finally votes it comes down to Peeker is posting a lot of fluff. I guess your posts just looking like smudges while I was reading through was reality since this is where your vote landed. While I think that Astrals’ actions have been weird and my vote may change that direction I think that SP has been stirring the pot more than Peeker ever dreamed of but not in a good way more in the throw shit at everyone and hope some sticks. **Vote Suburban Plankton** Hey, only an hour to type that I wonder how much I missed. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/644 "2010-08-16T16:38:09Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I thought his comment earlier was a one-off, but he’s been repeatedly asserting his power status. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I had completely dismissed Pleonast’s initial claim, but this rather subtle second claim had escaped my notice . It does raise the question of why Pleo seems to be reasserting a power role. Um, my “second” claim logically and unavoidably follows from the “first”, given that no vanilla role PM is publicly available\*. It is in fact not a new claim. I find it odd that two players think it’s worth mentioning. Why bother? \*And it’s in some ways a warning to other town power roles–you’re vulnerable because of this, which is why I hope the designers took this into account when balancing the game. Giving cover roles to scum helps them out against townie handshaking, but townie power roles are still left vulnerable. Why don’t more designers run open games? It avoids quirky problems like this entirely. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I don’t think he’s scum, because his ‘mistake’ would have been that much worse (and therefore that much less likely to have been made in the first place), but there’s something about his posts that doesn’t sit at all well. This kind of wishy-washy “not scum” but “not okay” post is a traditional way for scum to try to seem engaged without risky much. If the a consensus forms against the player, they can say they saw something early. If it turns out the player is town, they can say that’s what they thought. No risk. > [@Meeko](#): > > I Don’t know, I am sick and tired of having a made up distraction on Day 1. That’s real ironic coming from someone who’s hardly participated ToDay. > [@peekercpa](#): > > we’ve got fracking **pleo** coming out of nowhere with a magic bag power claim. A magic bag means the player promises to deliver something. You know, like pulling something out of a bag. I never promised anything and you implying that I did is either lack of reading comprehension, or sloppy thinking, or you trying to make my claim seem like more than it is. Suspicious, in a single word. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > As for being paranoid, of that I am guilty as charged. Can you blame me? As far as I know, there are 22 different people in this game who want me dead. This is a slip showing non-town thinking. 22 players want you dead only if you are on your own team. Townies have no reason to be this paranoid. Maybe other townies will try (or succeed) to kill you, but they certainly don’t want you dead. This combined with the wishy-washy comment I remarked on above leads me to **unvote** **(Why do we need to explicitly unvote when we can only have one at a time? A new vote should replace an old one, since you’re only giving us one anyway.)** **vote Suburban Plankton** > [@MHaye](#): > > At this stage, the only things we know are those contained in our individual role PMs (unless we’re one of SAHM in which case we may have had a chance to talk with our fellow Minions.) We don’t know what policy Mahaloth adopted to stop a Day 1 mass claim from breaking the game open and ruining it. When people start dying we’ll have some facts on which to base our speculation. “SAHM”? Stay at home mom? I don’t think that’s what you’re referring to. Please explain. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > It’s not the quantity, it’s the quality. Too many of your posts don’t contribute anything to the discussion. I’m at work at the moment so I don’t have time to go back over each of your almost 100 posts (since the beginning of Night 0) in detail at the moment, but the large number of ‘throwaway’ posts is distracting to me. And I figure that anyone who is deliberately causing distractions is likely up to no good. I may be voting for you, but this is a very good point. **peeker** is not being helpful to the town with a bunch of small, almost-joking posts that are not or barely relevant to the game. It’s not quite enough for me to vote for him yet. But it’s safe to say that if I were a Vig (and I’m not commenting either way on that), **peeker** would be dead at the next Dawn. I’ve vig’d him before for an anti-town posting style, so he knows I’m not bluffing. (And nothing personal, I just don’t think it’s helping town in any way, and it sure makes it harder to find the few posts he does have useful comments in.) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/645 "2010-08-16T16:39:06Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > what is it that i have posted that makes you convinced i am scum and deserving a vote? > > > > or is it just that i post too much? now if it’s because the volume of posting i fail to see why voting someone for posting too much is such a heinous offense that they get a vote. > > > > but you don’t want to vote for lurkers because posting volume doesn’t seem to indicate anything, right? > > > > oh shit, except in my case. > > It’s not the quantity, it’s the quality. Too many of your posts don’t contribute anything to the discussion. I’m at work at the moment so I don’t have time to go back over each of your almost 100 posts (since the beginning of Night 0) in detail at the moment, but the large number of ‘throwaway’ posts is distracting to me. And I figure that anyone who is deliberately causing distractions is likely up to no good. > > I admit, it’s not the strongest argument ever put forth, but it’s only Day 1. There’s not a whole lot of iron-clad evidence to go on at this point. If and when someone makes a stronger case, I’ll gladly change my vote. With almost 3 full days left until lynching, I’m not too concerned about it yet. and i am just going to vent because it is my nature. sure, i talk smack to other folks. and i think that any (and i mean any) discussion is good from a town stand point. and this is Day 1, for goodness sakes. so i see no “distraction” in engagement. for fucks sake **ed** (i think) burned the godfather on some Night one non strategy discussion in recruitment. sheebus, potter went fifteen pages, only. and how did that work out for town? i have a job to do. find and lynch scum. this is the way i do it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/646 "2010-08-16T16:39:44Z")
Some game comments not in specific reply to anyway. Please don’t throw around the term “gastard”. A gastard mod is one who doesn’t follow his own rules. A mod who doesn’t meet your expectations is not gastard. Saruman being a townie or Legolas being scum would not make this a gastard game. Their alignments are not stated in the game rules. I know I try very hard, and I’m sure **Mahaloth** does to, to consistently implement a game. Calling gastard is implying the mod is not and it’s insulting. I’m baffled by the pressure being put on **Chronos**. Nothing he has done points to being scum. Nor has nothing he has done pointed to being town. His little “slip” and hashcrumb\* are null-tells. Not enough to lynch him, nor enough to prevent his lynch. Pressure on him to reveal more is simply poorly placed. Comments stating that “you mistrust **playername** ” are not useful at best. Of course you don’t trust that player. The only players who trust anyone at this point are being careful not to reveal their trust. At worst, by saying you mistrust someone, you’re implying that you do trust another, which is tell–scum or mason or something else. And probably a slip on your part. Name claims are not necessary anti-town like some might say. Yes, there are considerable risks to the town. But scum face considerable risks as well to name claims. Maybe you are a cautious player and want to minimize risk to the town. That’s valid strategy. But it’s also valid play to force risks onto scum. Don’t pre-empt that debate with your own biases. \*Since it’s not really a breadcrumb, but is similar, I’ve coined a new term. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/647 "2010-08-16T16:48:06Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I grabbed this one for two reasons, one was Astral Rejection grabbing Pleo’s quote which doesn’t do anything pro town. On one hand it alerts the scum further to Pleo being a power role or secondly it smudges pleo for lying neither are good. Maybe I’m wrong, but Pleo was repeatedly asserting a power role in very unsubtle ways. I find that incredibly suspicious. Either he’s trying to get us to believe it through repetition, or he’s trying to draw scum fire during the first night kill. You’re exactly right that I’m smudging him; maybe he’s scum and hoping we’ll believe “scum wouldn’t play that way.” On day one, there’s little point in what he’s doing, and I have no reason in the world to believe his claims. When I called him out on what he was doing, I truly believed I was helping town. I still do. It’s something nobody else had noticed at that point, and there’s no reason to give a pass to Pleo’s claims. By questioning him about it, I’m hoping to generate usable discussion that town can use on future days. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/648 "2010-08-16T16:48:59Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > **(Why do we need to explicitly unvote when we can only have one at a time? A new vote should replace an old one, since you’re only giving us one anyway.)** 1. I love bothering Pleonast. It’s why I took up moderating in the first place. Trying to get him to make suggestions, then getting to ignore those suggestions, is fun! I live for his whining. 😛 2. Seriously, it’s just easier for me as a moderator to mark each vote and unvote. Helps keep things organized when votes fly around. I could easily make an error and have one player have two votes(especially if they vote 5-6 days apart). ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/649 "2010-08-16T16:51:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > **(Why do we need to explicitly unvote when we can only have one at a time? A new vote should replace an old one, since you’re only giving us one anyway.)** > > 1. I love bothering Pleonast. It’s why I took up moderating in the first place. Trying to get him to make suggestions, then getting to ignore those suggestions, is fun! I live for his whining. 😛 > > 2. Seriously, it’s just easier for me as a moderator to mark each vote and unvote. Helps keep things organized when votes fly around. I could easily make an error and have one player have two votes(especially if they vote 5-6 days apart). A worthy goal! Just embrace multi-voting. It’s much more fun! ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/650 "2010-08-16T16:54:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > “SAHM”? Stay at home mom? I don’t think that’s what you’re referring to. Please explain. It’s an acronym. SAHM= Sauron And His Minions. One of my quirks - I don’t like calling people “scum” so I try to work out what the bad-guy group is called in canon and use that. I think “Forces of the Dark Lord” might work better though, so I’ll use that in future. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/651 "2010-08-16T16:55:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > I thought his comment earlier was a one-off, but he’s been repeatedly asserting his power status. > > Um, my “second” claim logically and unavoidably follows from the “first”, given that no vanilla role PM is publicly available\*. It is in fact not a new claim. > > I find it odd that two players think it’s worth mentioning. Why bother? Pleo, I think it’s worth mentioning because it seemed to be such an unnecessary claim. Of course your second claim logically follows the first, but I’m asking **why** you claimed in the first place. And it’s disingenuous to say that two players think it’s worth mentioning. Gadarene and Peeko both question you a few posts after your initial claim; that brings us up to 4 players. I bet others have questioned it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/652 "2010-08-16T16:56:08Z")
Something I noticed that I want to make a public note of (in case of untimely death): I voted for suburban plankton: That puts a 2-2 tie against SP and Diver, Astral Rejection makes a weak vote for Diver and then Unvotes it. It’s leading me to believe that this was possibly a defensive vote that was thought better of in quick hindsight. If SP or Astral gets lynched and comes up scum, I think it would be a good line to the other. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/653 "2010-08-16T16:56:22Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > When I called him out on what he was doing, I truly believed I was helping town. I still do. It’s something nobody else had noticed at that point, and there’s no reason to give a pass to Pleo’s claims. By questioning him about it, I’m hoping to generate usable discussion that town can use on future days. I guess I’m just taking a different track, and one that the rest of the town seems to be following, which is to ignore Pleo’s claim entirely. Once something suspicious is done I’ll vote for him and continue to ignore the claim but continuing to bring it up only causes the town to have more distractions. If on the other hand you think that it’s an attempt to distract the town then vote for Pleo instead of smudging him. What it looks like to me is that you’re bringing up a distraction and saying that someone looks scummy but don’t want to take any heat for doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/654 "2010-08-16T17:08:10Z")
**Vote Pleonast.** I’ll stand by my suspicion. Again, expect this to change as others look scummier. @Red Skeezix: I can understand the anti-town motivation you’re seeing. But from my perspective, Chronos made an argument against USCDiver that I could agree with, and I decided to go with it. Then, as I stated, I changed my mind due to a misreading of Chronos’ case. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/655 "2010-08-16T17:09:18Z")
Oh man, I can not get this right. At least I bolded it this time. **Vote Pleonast.** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/656 "2010-08-16T17:09:57Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > “SAHM”? Stay at home mom? I don’t think that’s what you’re referring to. Please explain. > > It’s an acronym. > > SAHM= Sauron And His Minions. > > One of my quirks - I don’t like calling people “scum” so I try to work out what the bad-guy group is called in canon and use that. > > I think “Forces of the Dark Lord” might work better though, so I’ll use that in future. Maybe I missed it, but did you define this acronym before using it? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Um, my “second” claim logically and unavoidably follows from the “first”, given that no vanilla role PM is publicly available\*. It is in fact not a new claim. > > I find it odd that two players think it’s worth mentioning. Why bother? > > Pleo, I think it’s worth mentioning because it seemed to be such an unnecessary claim. Of course your second claim logically follows the first, but I’m asking **why** you claimed in the first place. And it’s disingenuous to say that two players think it’s worth mentioning. Gadarene and Peeko both question you a few posts after your initial claim; that brings us up to 4 players. I bet others have questioned it as well. Because apparently everyone (including you) understood it was nothing new, almost everyone didn’t remark on it. Except for you and **Planckton**. Don’t try to distract the point by bringing up the “first” claim. That’s not the topic I’m discussing. It’s the fact that two players felt it necessary to bring up the obvious “second” claim. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/657 "2010-08-16T17:11:14Z")
Minor comment: I also don’t think it would be particularly harmful for chronos to reveal the in-universe name from his information. It might later save his butt, or that of the person he has information on. Scenario: He knows who Elrond is. He dies and is town. A character under lynch pressure later makes an uncontested claim as Elrond. Chronos’s behavior supports/doesn’t support Chronos believing this person is town. I also see no harm in the following: My name, in canon, and my alignment match. Is this true of everyone else? Note: a failure to match is NOT a reason to lynch. Though I am suspicious of any name claim suggestion (until endgame), all of the benefits of such claims assume that names and alignments are congruent. If they are not, then there is absolutely no benefit at any stage. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/658 "2010-08-16T17:13:15Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@MHaye](#): > > > > It’s an acronym. > > > > SAHM= Sauron And His Minions. > > > > One of my quirks - I don’t like calling people “scum” so I try to work out what the bad-guy group is called in canon and use that. > > > > I think “Forces of the Dark Lord” might work better though, so I’ll use that in future. > > Maybe I missed it, but did you define this acronym before using it? It took me a second at the time, but I understood what he meant by it. Some of us had been discussing how many times the phrase “Sauron and his minions” appeared in our role PMs earlier in the thread, so it didn’t feel like it came out of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/659 "2010-08-16T17:18:30Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > Minor comment: I also don’t think it would be particularly harmful for chronos to reveal the in-universe name from his information. It might later save his butt, or that of the person he has information on. Scenario: He knows who Elrond is. He dies and is town. A character under lynch pressure later makes an uncontested claim as Elrond. Chronos’s behavior supports/doesn’t support Chronos believing this person is town. I agree with this, and I think it’s a good way to put it. > [@](#): > > I also see no harm in the following: > My name, in canon, and my alignment match. Is this true of everyone else? It’s true of me as well, although I suspect this won’t be a particularly useful exercise. Anyone who says that their name and alignment don’t match up, canon-wise, is gonna come in for a ton of scrutiny, so I’d guess that anyone who volunteers this information will have the same answer as you and I. It’d be interesting if I’m wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/660 "2010-08-16T17:25:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Because apparently everyone (including you) understood it was nothing new, almost everyone didn’t remark on it. Except for you and **Planckton**. > > Don’t try to distract the point by bringing up the “first” claim. That’s not the topic I’m discussing. It’s the fact that two players felt it necessary to bring up the obvious “second” claim. Here’s what I said about it. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m content to disregard Pleo’s claim for now based on what everybody’s saying about his past history. I agree with Hoopy in that the claim is pure noise. For now. Based on what everybody else said about your past history, I thought your claim was just noise. But then you did it again. It’s not noise anymore. It’s not your past history anymore either; now it’s what you’re doing _in this game._ You’ve never answered why you’d volunteer the information that you’re a power role, and I have no idea why I’m supposed to ignore it just because you want me to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=34)