# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/661 "2010-08-16T17:26:07Z")
Quoth **MHaye** : > [@](#): > > One of my quirks - I don’t like calling people “scum” so I try to work out what the bad-guy group is called in canon and use that. Refresh my memory: Were you in the pond game I ran? On to other matters, the primary reason I haven’t yet revealed the role-name of the person I know is that Day doesn’t end for a few days yet, and I don’t want to rush into a decision I can’t take back. However, the point about at least confirming that that character is in the game (and thus meaning that an uncontested claim of that name can confirm that player) is a good one. I have thought of some potential drawbacks, but they all only apply in situations that are probably less likely to come up than that, so I probably will reveal the role-name on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/662 "2010-08-16T17:26:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > A magic bag means the player promises to deliver something. You know, like pulling something out of a bag. and i don’t do the multi quote thing but… from **pleo** at 175 _Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role._ kind of like this? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/663 "2010-08-16T17:27:10Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Maybe I missed it, but did you define this acronym before using it? No. However, the handshake discussion contained enough references to the phrase “Sauron and his minions” appearing in PMs that I thought the meaning was reasonably easy to deduce. Plus, it amused me - so I may have not given the question of definition sufficient critical thought. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/664 "2010-08-16T17:30:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **MHaye** : > > > [@](#): > > > > One of my quirks - I don’t like calling people “scum” so I try to work out what the bad-guy group is called in canon and use that. > > Refresh my memory: Were you in the pond game I ran? No, I wasn’t. Just as well really… Oh, and it’s “Servants of Darkness” - the sods. (I read the OP. It’s in there.) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/665 "2010-08-16T17:39:49Z")
[OOG]I’ve been having a lot of fun catching up by reading some of the more recent Mafia games to get a handle on strategy and flow and stuff; so far I’ve read Harry Potter, Random Mafia, and Mazalan. What other games would you folk recommend – from here, Idle, or Giraffe – that would make for an enjoyable read, whether because of interesting game mechanics, skillful play, or really cool twists?[/OOG] ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/666 "2010-08-16T17:53:58Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > A magic bag means the player promises to deliver something. You know, like pulling something out of a bag. > > and i don’t do the multi quote thing but… > from **pleo** at 175 > _Confirm receipt of my role PM. I have a Townie power role._ > kind of like this? And…? Aren’t you supposed to explain how my claim is a magic bag? I always have trouble understanding you, but it doesn’t look like you’re even trying to communicate anymore. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You’ve never answered why you’d volunteer the information that you’re a power role, and I have no idea why I’m supposed to ignore it just because you want me to. You need to go back and reread the thread because I did answer why: [185](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12793977&postcount=185), [194](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12794035&postcount=194). Perhaps you do not like my answers, but please don’t misrepresent the fact that I have. > [@Gadarene](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Maybe I missed it, but did you define this acronym before using it? > > It took me a second at the time, but I understood what he meant by it. Some of us had been discussing how many times the phrase “Sauron and his minions” appeared in our role PMs earlier in the thread, so it didn’t feel like it came out of nowhere. The problem I’m having is that the unexplained use of “SAHM” implies that **MHaye** had explained and used it in some other venue beforehand. Like a scum thread. I am definitely marking this as a slip (his explanation does not allay my suspicion), worthy of a vote, although I currently have a more suspicious target. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/667 "2010-08-16T18:06:14Z")
Posting as I catch up. And to think I was here this morning. You sure have posted a lot, guys. > [@Pleonast](#): > > However, not all townies are members (unless this game is balanced very strangely) of the canonical Fellowship: Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas, Gimli, and Gandalf. Might it be useful if everyone makes a claim “yes I am a member of the canonical Fellowship” or “no I am not a member of the canonical Fellowship”? > > Advantages I can think of are giving us more or less confirmed townies, assuming exactly nine claim. It wouldn’t be certain, because of the questionable Boromir, but it would give us a group of more likely town. Heck, we could even say the Boromir should claim straight out. The other advantage, which is slight, is it prevents scum from later claiming one of the names. But I don’t think they’re likely to anyway. > > The disadvantages are that scum may be looking for specific members of town, and likely specific members of the Fellowship. That seems like a very high risk to me. > > Personally, I think it is too risky for a yes/no in the Fellowship claim. But I’m not one to suppress an idea simply because I’m not certain it’s useful. Perhaps I am overlooking some important benefit. I still refuse to believe as strongly as many of you seem to that Role Name indicates alignment. Maybe it’s true, but let’s not forget that this is an assumption, not a given..Additionally, if it is true, then isn’t it also possible that the Fellowship might represent our power roles and we’d be handing them over to the Scum with limited benefit to the Town? That, in addition to any potentially recruitable players, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/668 "2010-08-16T18:09:38Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The problem I’m having is that the unexplained use of “SAHM” implies that **MHaye** had explained and used it in some other venue beforehand. Like a scum thread. I am definitely marking this as a slip (his explanation does not allay my suspicion), worthy of a vote, although I currently have a more suspicious target. His explanation makes it more suspect than I previously envisioned. I had assumed that he was in the habit of rewriting things as many players are, and it was a simple editing omission. One more reason not to make assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/669 "2010-08-16T18:10:37Z")
@Hoopy, post 639, are you disagreeing with yourself? I noticed the hanging tag, how did the quote actually split? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/670 "2010-08-16T18:19:33Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Aren’t you supposed to explain how my claim is a magic bag? \ ok. i’ll try real hard and if it doesn’t work then, meh. you have a townie power role. you can pull something “out of the bag” that would potentially help town. now that last one might be a leap but i kind of jumped from townie power role to helping town. so perhaps i misunderstood and shouldn’t have assumed that your role would help town. my bad. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/671 "2010-08-16T18:22:17Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > My concern is, if town PMs are not alike, or based on the same template, it could lead to confusion over alignment. If scum have been given VT templates as cover, it would make sense that VTs would have varying templates in order to identify their alignment in case scum produce a PM of their cover. (Does this make sense?) This doesn’t make sense to me: why should a vanilla posting a varying role PM identify his alignment? I assume you mean proof that their alignment is town but that means you think any role PM posted is proof of alignment? And what is the point of giving cover vanilla roles to scum if they still stand out compared to the all actual vanilla templates? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/672 "2010-08-16T18:22:23Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The problem I’m having is that the unexplained use of “SAHM” implies that **MHaye** had explained and used it in some other venue beforehand. Like a scum thread. I am definitely marking this as a slip (his explanation does not allay my suspicion), worthy of a vote, although I currently have a more suspicious target. It took me a second, but I got it. I tend to stick to Town and Scum in my descriptions. It helps when you play more than 1 game at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/673 "2010-08-16T18:22:46Z")
You know part of the reason post counts and lurker accusations bother me? Because someone like Ed, or peeker, come in and make like 10 posts in a row, all responding to different things, and people think that they’re making all these useful posts, see look at the post count, and they all have content! Whereas I make one post, responding to different things within that post, and people say oh he’s only got 2 posts, sure they have content, but it’s only 2! Same amount of content, just less posts. Yet somehow my way is bad. Whatever. Astral, why does the second mention suddenly change the meaning of the first mention? I have to admit, I once had a thought similar to yours. It was in a game with pedescribe, I don’t remember which one. He did something similar to what Pleo has done in this game, only with a vanilla claim rather than a power role claim. After he did it several times, I called him on it. My thought process was like yours, if you keep referencing it subtly, people will eventually just absorb it and accept it subconsciously. The thing is, it doesn’t really work that way. It doesn’t matter how many times he says it, the claim is irrelevent until and unless more information accompanies it. So there’s no point in continuing to harp on it, and there’s no point in continuing to ask for more information. You’ve gotten what you’re going to get at this point, let it go. That you haven’t and don’t appear like you will is suspicious. Combined with the about face on USCDiver, and I’m likely going to vote for you. I keep going back and forth on Suburban Plankton. On the one hand, he does seem to be wanting his cake and to eat it too, with voting for a high volume poster while also calling out lurkers(however you choose to define that, and don’t get me started on it). On the other hand, his explanation for why is logical and doesn’t feel forced at all. On the third hand, there’s definately been something of a scatter shot approach that bothers me a little. Something to continue mulling over in my own head in the end. The fellowship claim idea is a terrible one, and I’m a bit surprised it came from you Pleo. Based on Maha’s past games, there’s no reason to assume all the fellowship is in the game. What ones that are in the game are likely Town, unless of course one of them was used as a cover role, but if even one is missing we’re opening up a door for scum to try and slip in a solid fake claim. Too risky, and the potential upside is unlikely at best. And in a follow up to my earlier comment, I see Ed is doing exactly what I said once again. But people will still say I’m lurking. Is it any wonder I keep quitting this game? Enough catch up for now. Time to follow through on what I said. \*\* Vote Astral Projection \*\* ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/674 "2010-08-16T18:23:51Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > And what is the point of giving cover vanilla roles to scum if they still stand out compared to the all actual vanilla templates? To make our Scum hunting really really easy? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/675 "2010-08-16T18:33:36Z")
@Nanook: I’m only still going on about it because it’s the topic at hand. If I don’t respond to people questioning me about it, that’d look suspicious too 🙂 I’m currently voting for Pleo for a number of reasons. His claim is one part of it. I find his suggestion that the fellowship claim terrible too. He can dismiss his statements with two quick sentences at the end saying he can see a downside for it, but he put a lot of effort into that post. That indicates to me that he was hoping somebody would take it seriously and consider it. And that has scum written all over it. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/676 "2010-08-16T18:37:29Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > You know part of the reason post counts and lurker accusations bother me? Because someone like Ed, or peeker, come in and make like 10 posts in a row, all responding to different things, and people think that they’re making all these useful posts, see look at the post count, and they all have content! Whereas I make one post, responding to different things within that post, and people say oh he’s only got 2 posts, sure they have content, but it’s only 2! Same amount of content, just less posts. Yet somehow my way is bad. Whatever.\*\* \*\* Some of us appreciate your posting style. It may be very different from mine, but you definitely contribute to the game in a thorough manner. The only issue I’ve ever had is that occasionally your contribution comes in too late in the Day to have the impact it should. Obviously that’s not the case toDay. While it certainly doesn’t hurt to be aware of post counts (and I will look at them and encourage participation) using it as a basis for voting is something I won’t do often, and certainly not as the only reason for voting. It is important to also look at what the player is contributing to the game as well (or avoiding contributing) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/677 "2010-08-16T18:50:51Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > The fellowship claim idea is a terrible one, and I’m a bit surprised it came from you Pleo. Based on Maha’s past games, there’s no reason to assume all the fellowship is in the game. What ones that are in the game are likely Town, unless of course one of them was used as a cover role, but if even one is missing we’re opening up a door for scum to try and slip in a solid fake claim. Too risky, and the potential upside is unlikely at best. I didn’t base my suggestion on past games, as I’m not really familiar with past **Mahaloth** games. I think this is the first I’ve played in. I’m not sure why you’re surprised about me suggesting it. I have a penchant for high risk, high reward tactics. I do not like the overly cautious gameplay that a lot of players have settled into. It lets scum play a low-risk game. And it makes it too easy for scum to predict and manipulate the town. So I considered the in/out the canonical Fellowship question as a possible tactic. My inclination is the up sides do not outweigh the down, but I think it’s worthwhile for others to think about it. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I find his suggestion that the fellowship claim terrible too. He can dismiss his statements with two quick sentences at the end saying he can see a downside for it, but he put a lot of effort into that post. That indicates to me that he was hoping somebody would take it seriously and consider it. And that has scum written all over it. Yes, I am hoping others seriously consider it, which is why I submitted it. That’s how the town needs to play–coming up with ideas and using the best. If you discourage players from expressing their ideas, then the ideas that have some drawbacks but have significant upsides never get used, because no one will risk suggesting them. Scum, on the other hand, prefer that the town do little other than randomly vote. Stopping the town from discussing ideas, like you’re suggesting, is a great scum tactic. I think you’re new to Mafia, so I won’t vote you for this. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/678 "2010-08-16T18:59:25Z")
I hadn’t realized you weren’t familiar with his other games. That removes the objection regarding you specifically. Nevertheless, I still think it’s a very bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/679 "2010-08-16T19:42:42Z")
I think it’s a bad idea, too, but it’s a terrible mistake to punish people just for coming up with ideas. Yeah, sometimes an idea will turn out to be bad, and when that happens, we need to realize that it’s bad and reject it. But sometimes an idea will be good, too. And sometimes, even, an idea that looks bad at first blush will turn out to be good, or vice-versa. Nor will the player who comes up with an idea in the first place always realize all the implications of it. So, when someone has an idea, they should share it, and let the rest of us discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/680 "2010-08-16T19:43:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > **(Why do we need to explicitly unvote when we can only have one at a time? A new vote should replace an old one, since you’re only giving us one anyway.)** I always do it even if I don’t need to. Habit plus it’s kind of nice for the mod. When I run games, I typically don’t require it, but I prefer it because it can be a double check to make sure I haven’t missed anything. To each his own, though. > [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m baffled by the pressure being put on **Chronos**. Nothing he has done points to being scum. Nor has nothing he has done pointed to being town. His little “slip” and hashcrumb\* are null-tells. Not enough to lynch him, nor enough to prevent his lynch. Pressure on him to reveal more is simply poorly placed. Some of us want him to tell more because we feel it’s in town’s best interest to the player name. Note that I unvoted Chronos, because he explained himself adequately to remove my suspicions. I’m not pressuring him to find out more about his role, I’m asking for the piece of information he holds because I think the potential benefits outweigh the potential negatives. It has nothing to do with his playstyle or alignment at this point. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I find his suggestion that the fellowship claim terrible too. He can dismiss his statements with two quick sentences at the end saying he can see a downside for it, but he put a lot of effort into that post. That indicates to me that he was hoping somebody would take it seriously and consider it. And that has scum written all over it. Bad ideas are not scummy. Period. Bad ideas actively embraced after all the downsides have been hashed out and outweigh the upsides are generally anti-town, and usually amount to a null tell with maybe slight scum-tell leanings. But opening discussion on an idea is not scummy at all. I don’t agree with Pleo’s idea, for reasons that have already been mentioned, but his bringing it up as a point of discussion is not scummy. It’s not even anti-town. There was a while on here and Idle’s board where people would be lynched for bad ideas. These people were inevitably almost always town. > [@special\_ed](#): > > @Hoopy, post 639, are you disagreeing with yourself? > > I noticed the hanging tag, how did the quote actually split? It was actually a quote from cucuy’s in reply 545. > [@Gadarene](#): > > It’s true of me as well, although I suspect this won’t be a particularly useful exercise. Anyone who says that their name and alignment don’t match up, canon-wise, is gonna come in for a ton of scrutiny, so I’d guess that anyone who volunteers this information will have the same answer as you and I. It’d be interesting if I’m wrong, though. There is no reason for town to lie. If someone doesn’t match canonical alignment, and they later are revealed to be town, that’s a nice point of info for the rest of us. Just because someone doesn’t match is no reason to even use it against them. It creates a data point whose significance could become apparent later, but it alone indicates nothing. Only scum/3rd party would have reason to lie in this situation. My role name matches my alignment canonically, BTW. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > But then you did it again. It’s not noise anymore. It’s not your past history anymore either; now it’s what you’re doing _in this game._ You’ve never answered why you’d volunteer the information that you’re a power role, and I have no idea why I’m supposed to ignore it just because you want me to. It’s still noise. It’s consistent noise that has the same motivation that the first reveal did, but it’s still noise. Until actual new information comes to light (via investigation, lynch pressure, or what have you), town should treat it as noise. > [@Gadarene](#): > > [OOG]I’ve been having a lot of fun catching up by reading some of the more recent Mafia games to get a handle on strategy and flow and stuff; so far I’ve read Harry Potter, Random Mafia, and Mazalan. What other games would you folk recommend – from here, Idle, or Giraffe – that would make for an enjoyable read, whether because of interesting game mechanics, skillful play, or really cool twists?[/OOG] Read Inblourious Gasterds on this board. It was a game I ran adapted from a suggestion of a real life friend of mine who encountered a similar setup on MafiaScum. Everyone was a serial killer with a false card flip cover that only I, my co-mod NAF, and the spoilered were aware of. The cover roles were randomly distributed. The Serial Killer targets amounted essentially to a secret ballot determining who died that night. (Majority ruled, with some tiebreakers set up if needed.) The Gastardness was only in the setup, and the setup itself followed a consistent framework. We mods never lied outside of the framework, and there was even a way for the entire game to win. The annoying thing was the first 7 (IIRC) kills were the presorted vanilla covers. That was unexpected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=35)