# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/741 "2010-08-17T07:35:23Z")
MY alignment is also consistent with my role name. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/742 "2010-08-17T12:36:08Z")
Attention: \*\* Inner Stickler is replacing NormalPhase. \*\* Welcome Stickler! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/743 "2010-08-17T12:39:39Z")
Hi all! This is just to let everyone know I’m here and I got my role pm. I’ll post actual thoughts later on today but I am heading to work immediately after sending this. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/744 "2010-08-17T12:41:06Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Chronos(1): Specialed Suburban(6): Telcontar, RedSkeezix, Hoopy, Oredigger, Pleonast, Cucuy USCDiver(3): Chronos, Drainbead, Gadarene Nanook(1): Peeker Peeker(1): Suburban Astral(3): OneandOnly, USCDiver, Nanook Day ends Thursday at Noon Eastern.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/745 "2010-08-17T13:20:54Z")
> [@cucuy](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > “SAHM”? Stay at home mom? I don’t think that’s what you’re referring to. Please explain. > > “Swedes Are Handsome Men”? 😉 (Yes, I’m Swedish.) > > I understood **MHaye’s** acronym the moment I read it. There’s been more than one post mentioning “Sauron and his minions.” As for his reply on why he choose to use it, I’m not convinced it’s a slip. I may be missing something here. > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > It’s not quite enough for me to vote for him yet. But it’s safe to say that if I were a Vig (and I’m not commenting either way on that), **peeker** would be dead at the next Dawn. **I’ve vig’d him before for an anti-town posting style,** so he knows I’m not bluffing. (And nothing personal, I just don’t think it’s helping town in any way, and it sure makes it harder to find the few posts he does have useful comments in.) > > I’m curious: what was his alignment at that time? > > I think attacking **peeker** based upon his posting style is more reactive than helpful. From what I can tell (and my experience playing with him is limited to one game), he hasn’t ducked any questions and is carrying the discussions in his own inimitable manner. The “Vig the confusing” isn’t a new strategy. In Meeko’s earlier games, I fully supported that course of action. His posting style wasn’t what you see today. Just have a look at Lost or Crimson Glyph. You can just search for his posts in that thread. So, I understand Pleo’s approach. All of peeper’s posts do make it difficult to understand what his actual opinions in the game itself are aside from that he thinks it appropriate to reply with snark and sarcasm to topics of conversation that aren’t to his liking. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/746 "2010-08-17T13:23:58Z")
OK, let me put to rest this all Vanilla Role PMs may not be the same. As I’m an outed Vanilla Town, here is my role PM. It’s useless for handshaking at this point. If any other Vanilla is up for lynch, please before dying tell us if your PM is identical to mine aside from the role Name, which I’ve deleted. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > You are xxxxx. > > You are a member of the Alliance of Light. > > You are truly frightened about a future controlled by Sauron. You are sure that Sauron and his minions would destroy all good in Middle-earth and this includes your family and loved ones. You will not stop until Sauron and his minions are destroyed. > > Powers: > > You have no other powers beyond daily voting for lynching. > > You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/747 "2010-08-17T13:44:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, let me put to rest this all Vanilla Role PMs may not be the same. > > As I’m an outed Vanilla Town, here is my role PM. It’s useless for handshaking at this point. > > If any other Vanilla is up for lynch, please before dying tell us if your PM is identical to mine aside from the role Name, which I’ve deleted. > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > You are xxxxx. > > > > You are a member of the Alliance of Light. > > > > You are truly frightened about a future controlled by Sauron. You are sure that Sauron and his minions would destroy all good in Middle-earth and this includes your family and loved ones. You will not stop until Sauron and his minions are destroyed. > > > > Powers: > > > > You have no other powers beyond daily voting for lynching. > > > > You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed. now who is it in past games that has basically hammered anyone for unprovoked vanilla claims? care to remind me **ed**? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/748 "2010-08-17T13:48:22Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > The “Vig the confusing” isn’t a new strategy. In Meeko’s earlier games, I fully supported that course of action. His posting style wasn’t what you see today. Just have a look at Lost or Crimson Glyph. You can just search for his posts in that thread. > > So, I understand Pleo’s approach. All of peeper’s posts do make it difficult to understand what his actual opinions in the game itself are aside from that he thinks it appropriate to reply with snark and sarcasm to topics of conversation that aren’t to his liking. \ and i agree that “vig the confusing” and “lynch the loud” are strategies that have been employed primarily on this board. not sure how they have panned out when it comes to helping a town victory. and if my comments come off as “snark and sarcasm” then i apologize. they are more what i would call caustic wit. back in a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/749 "2010-08-17T13:50:08Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, let me put to rest this all Vanilla Role PMs may not be the same. > > As I’m an outed Vanilla Town, here is my role PM. It’s useless for handshaking at this point. > > If any other Vanilla is up for lynch, please before dying tell us if your PM is identical to mine aside from the role Name, which I’ve deleted. > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > You are xxxxx. > > > > You are a member of the Alliance of Light. > > > > You are truly frightened about a future controlled by Sauron. You are sure that Sauron and his minions would destroy all good in Middle-earth and this includes your family and loved ones. You will not stop until Sauron and his minions are destroyed. > > > > Powers: > > > > You have no other powers beyond daily voting for lynching. > > > > You win when all threats to the Alliance of Light have been destroyed. Why is this helpful? ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/750 "2010-08-17T14:03:27Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > This part makes less sense. I understand what you’re saying about Masons, but Chronos isn’t claiming to be a Mason. Or is this just a specific example of what you were saying in the first paragraph? Just a specific example. Fully hidden Masons shouldn’t claim as a general rule until it’s time to narrow the unconfirmed pool. (This usually happens about the time the Detective comes out, and a good rule of thumb is if the Detective can confirm 3 townies, he should reveal.) However, if the masonry is down to two or less, an earlier claim might be warranted, since a sole claiming mason is useless. But really, only one mason will need to claim in that case, since the important part is knowing the numbers of masons, more than who they are. Revealing the players too early gives scum a nice roadmap for earlier kills. As long as the numbers of masons are revealed, scum are hard-pressed to false claim mason. Because if they do, the real masons will counter, and a one-for-one mason for scum trade is a winner for town. Then when it’s time to narrow the unconfirmed pool, the remaining masons can fully claim as above. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The potential benefits outweigh the potential negatives in my view. > > I admit that my potential negatives were slight. The benefits you point out contain a lot of ‘ifs’; I guess I’ve been looking for something more concrete. Of course, I’m not likely to find anything like that, am I? Probably not. Very little in mafia is ever concrete. But it is a large part a game of odds. It’s more likely than not that Chronos was informed of a player who is town. And if not, there is no doubt still a reason why he knows of this player. Otherwise, there doesn’t seem much reason for Mahaloth to have given him it. Red Herrings, while not necessarily bastard, frequently make a game annoying and/or unfun. Mafia is also a game where the layman interpretation of Occam’s Razor frequently comes into play. The simpler explanation is usually the right one. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/751 "2010-08-17T14:38:38Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > OK, let me put to rest this all Vanilla Role PMs may not be the same. > > > > As I’m an outed Vanilla Town, here is my role PM. It’s useless for handshaking at this point. > > > > If any other Vanilla is up for lynch, please before dying tell us if your PM is identical to mine aside from the role Name, which I’ve deleted. > > Why is this helpful? I’d like to add, where exactly were you ‘outed’ as Vanilla Town? Apparently I missed that. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/752 "2010-08-17T14:45:49Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@Telcontar](#): > > > > Why is this helpful? > > I’d like to add, where exactly were you ‘outed’ as Vanilla Town? Apparently I missed that. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Yes, my attempt was to handshake with Vanilla Townies for 2 reasons > > 1. I couldn’t be sure that a power role ownie’s PM might not differ significant;y from mine > 2. By confirming Vanillas we set ourselves up to be NightKilled. Much better to NK the Vanilla’s than the Townies. **Special Ed** has to be either VT or scum (or 3rd party…) with access to a VT PM in order to make an attempt at handshaking with other VTs. And anyone who said their last section matched **Special Ed** ’s last section had to have the same “You have no other powers beyond daily voting for lynching.” phrase in their PM thus “outing” themselves as VT. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/753 "2010-08-17T15:06:37Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > > I’d like to add, where exactly were you ‘outed’ as Vanilla Town? Apparently I missed that. > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > Yes, my attempt was to handshake with Vanilla Townies for 2 reasons > > > > 1. I couldn’t be sure that a power role ownie’s PM might not differ significant;y from mine > > 2. By confirming Vanillas we set ourselves up to be NightKilled. Much better to NK the Vanilla’s than the Townies. > > **Special Ed** has to be either VT or scum (or 3rd party…) with access to a VT PM in order to make an attempt at handshaking with other VTs. And anyone who said their last section matched **Special Ed** ’s last section had to have the same “You have no other powers beyond daily voting for lynching.” phrase in their PM thus “outing” themselves as VT. OK. So he wasn’t so much outed in the past; rather he claimed to be vanilla earlier, and he is outing himself now by supplying the PM for other Vanillas to compare. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/754 "2010-08-17T15:14:14Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Mafia is also a game where the layman interpretation of Occam’s Razor frequently comes into play. The simpler explanation is usually the right one. It’s interesting that you say this. I think it’s true that Occam’s razor usually applies…but at the same time, we’re all constantly looking for the subtle points that ‘give someone away’. We find the one phrase in a thousand word post that is ‘inconsistent’ and generate a page worth of discussion on it, and more often than not in the end the explanation comes down to “somebody misspoke”. Not arguing for or against what you said (or the fact that you said it)…I just find the concept fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/755 "2010-08-17T15:16:25Z")
We’re about 48 hours out and still missing a lot of votes. Let’s try to get them in. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/756 "2010-08-17T15:19:14Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > **Special Ed** has to be either VT or scum (or 3rd party…) with access to a VT PM … \ i agree that **ed** could be anything that has access to a vt pm, assuming they would all be identical. however, i think it is a leap to conclude that he is an outed vt. and total metagame. but **ed** typically has chastised others for unprovoked vt claims in other games (based on my memory). so this behavior is really inconsistent and has me puzzling with what is up. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/757 "2010-08-17T16:15:56Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > You didn’t answer the main point I raised. Why would the Scum have any reason to say SAHM on their own board, rather than saying “we” or “us”? It seems odd for the Scum to use an acronym to refer to themselves on their own private board. If anything, I think the use of that acronym makes him more likely to be _Town_ rather than Scum. Your point really doesn’t have anything to do with my argument, which is there’s evidence that **MHaye** has been posting in another thread. But **MHaye** has already answered your question: > [@MHaye](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > “SAHM”? Stay at home mom? I don’t think that’s what you’re referring to. Please explain. > > It’s an acronym. > SAHM= Sauron And His Minions. > One of my quirks - I don’t like calling people “scum” so I try to work out what the bad-guy group is called in canon and use that. > I think “Forces of the Dark Lord” might work better though, so I’ll use that in future That reason works equally well if he is town or scum. > [@cucuy](#): > > “Swedes Are Handsome Men”? 😉 (Yes, I’m Swedish.) > > I understood **MHaye’s** acronym the moment I read it. There’s been more than one post mentioning “Sauron and his minions.” As for his reply on why he choose to use it, I’m not convinced it’s a slip. I may be missing something here. I didn’t figure it out, but I have a history of not getting acronyms. (I was lynched in another game for thinking “VT” meant “vigilante” instead of “vanilla town”.) But my argument against **MHaye** isn’t about whether anyone could understand him. It’s about why he’d use an acronym without explanation. The only plausible answer is that it is being used on another board. That means he’s more likely to be scum. Hence my vote (or would-be vote since the moderator has a silly ban against multi-voting). > [@](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > It’s not quite enough for me to vote for him yet. But it’s safe to say that if I were a Vig (and I’m not commenting either way on that), **peeker** would be dead at the next Dawn. **I’ve vig’d him before for an anti-town posting style,** so he knows I’m not bluffing. (And nothing personal, I just don’t think it’s helping town in any way, and it sure makes it harder to find the few posts he does have useful comments in.) > > I’m curious: what was his alignment at that time? > > I think attacking **peeker** based upon his posting style is more reactive than helpful. From what I can tell (and my experience playing with him is limited to one game), he hasn’t ducked any questions and is carrying the discussions in his own inimitable manner. **peeker** was town. :smack: But that doesn’t mean his posting style is not anti-town. And it does not mean he is town this time. **peeker** can post usefully: [670](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806816&postcount=670)–simple and to-the-point. Which is unfortunately not like most of his posts. > [@cucuy](#): > > > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > > I still don’t understand what seems to be a wide-held opinion that we can discount anything/everything peeker says, because he’s just “being himself”. I couldn’t care less whether he’s being himself, or if he’s acting completely out of character. I voted for peeker because I didn’t like the content of what he posted _ **in this thread** _. Maybe if I had played a number of gamed with him I might have a different opinion. But since I don’t have the benefit of history, I’m not using that to base my opinions. > > I still find it odd that you would call out the lurkers for their apparent lack of participation, and then claiming you don’t have anything against them, but then you vote on the one person because he is the most active participant in the game. > **Vote Suburban Plankton** > for pointing at a lot of things but not committing to one point in general. I’m all for the lynch of **Plankton** , but this is terrible reasoning. **peeker** is not an active participant in this game. Yes, he has a lot of posts, but most of them have little to nothing to do with playing the game. Participating means engaging in discussions, not mouthing off-topic comments. > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > since a sole claiming mason is useless. Not true. A sole Mason is still useful to town as a confirmable townie. But not nearly as useful as more Masons. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/758 "2010-08-17T16:35:53Z")
Hey, I just wanted to let you guys know I’m traveling for the rest of the week and will be limited to posting on my phone so my spelling and grammer will suck more then usual. But I’m reading along so feel free to poke me and if I see something important I’ll post something consise. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/759 "2010-08-17T17:01:04Z")
OK, first of all, **special ed** ’s PM does match **USCDiver** ’s four Ds handshake. This weakens my case on him enough that I will **Unvote USCDiver** I’ll have to take a look at the other cases (and the thread in general) before re-voting. In retrospect, it was a mistake to wait until the end of Day 1 to start taking my detailed notes (I think this game is already longer than Harry Potter). Second, it looks like **special ed** and **Suburban Plankton** , who were the biggest critics of me revealing the role-name I know, have since come around. Given that the consensus is so strong, I think it’s safe for me to move my decision up. I know who Aragorn is. I think that it is reasonable to assume that Aragorn is Town, and it’s also probably pretty likely that he’s a power role (though what sort, I’m not sure: I could reasonably see him as either a doctor or some sort of information-gatherer). Aragorn, if you do end up needing to claim, please do so with enough time left in the Day for me to confirm my hashcrumb. It’d look pretty bad for me if you claimed and I didn’t have enough time to do that. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/760 "2010-08-17T17:03:31Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > **peeker** was town. :smack: But that doesn’t mean his posting style is not anti-town. And it does not mean he is town this time. **peeker** can post usefully: [670](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806816&postcount=670)–simple and to-the-point. Which is unfortunately not like most of his posts. \ so you have assumed the arbiter of what is “anti-town” from **chronos** it appears. ok, let me be very clear then for you. soft fracking claims stink. they run along the lines of don’t dick with me because that would be very bad for town. is there not a lot of scum motivation in that? and i approach this game like a single guy in a bar approaches someone he wants to hook up with. i like subtlety and if that is not your cup of tea that sounds like your problem, not mine. seriously, i have gotten laid more often by commenting on her hair style or how good the dress looks than by just coming straight out with: “wanna fuck?” and if you want some more lack of subtelty i think **ed** ’s little gambit was a piece of turd. if scum were provided a sample of a vt pm, if in fact they are consistent, was pure genius from a scum stand point. they get to identify a whole bunch of non power town roles and reduce the pile they shoot in. all the while looking like “confirmed vt” while performing this handshake thing. and i see a whole pisspot of scum motivation in that activity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=39)