# Lord of the Rings Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867 "2010-08-10T19:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/861 "2010-08-18T14:37:36Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > the question about the accuracy of the vote count because **guiri** questioned it before me (cross post)? > > i think that would be highly informative from a town standpoint. i mean is it an administrative error or a function of the game? the fact that i have three names lined up after me but only have a count of (2) and the fact that others have their names listed multiple times means a hell of a lot. and for fuck’s sake before someone chimes in with you are doing scum’s homework for them it doesn’t take a fracking genius to see it. > > and why in the world did you include that last bit of information? jeebus. 1.) > [@peekercpa](#): > > \*\* mod question: were all vts provided the same pm? and if so did you let a certain subset of participants know this fact?\*\* That question, not the vote count question. Think before you post. And I include it because it would have substantial anti-town implications if we read too much into variation in vanilla PMs or assumed that all PMs that didn’t exactly match ed’s indicated…pretty much anything. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/862 "2010-08-18T14:38:27Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > Except for the two times you admitted town lost after handshaking, right? Those were failures. I can accept that maybe you were referring to it failing at the beginning, as opposed to eventually leading to a town loss. But I’d appreciate some consistency on this handshaking business, consistency you’re not offering. > > > > Vote special ed There’s a whole lot about this that rubs me the wrong way. > > /snipped and bleached > @ **Astral Rejection** , sorry to keep bugging you about your votes but one thing isn’t clear from this vote. Are you voting **Special Ed** because you think he’s scum, because he’s been causing an anti-town distraction with the handshaking thingy irrespective of his alignment, or because the handshake attempt may have given scum a tremendous advantage and there for was a pro-scum action irrespective of **special ed** ’s alignment? No worries. If I’m not able to defend my vote, I shouldn’t be making it in the first place. I do believe, based on the evidence we have here, that Ed is scum. It’d be ridiculous to vote for him if I thought he was town; he helps town just by surviving if he is town, after all. I do believe his handshaking mess hurt town, and I agree with you that it may have given scum some kind of advantage, although I don’t know at this point if it’s tremendous. I see a solid scum reason for doing what he did, and a weak town reason. I don’t agree with your last question. I’m never going to vote for something “irrespective” of their alignment. That assumes I know what they are, and I’m voting anyway. That’s silly. 🙂 I can even admit, I wasn’t fully understanding what he meant by comparing other role PMs to his. I was off-base in assuming he meant he wanted to compare them against the posted handshakes earlier. But his subsequent posts have done little to allay my suspicions, and some of what he’s said sounds even scummier. So my vote did its job; it got him talking, and it helped clarify my mind. **Mahaloth: My vote is for Special Ed, not Chronos** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/863 "2010-08-18T14:45:19Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > No worries. If I’m not able to defend my vote, I shouldn’t be making it in the first place. I do believe, based on the evidence we have here, that Ed is scum. It’d be ridiculous to vote for him if I thought he was town; he helps town just by surviving if he is town, after all. OK, 'cause from this post it really looks like you think he’s Town but playing in an anti-town manner: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Especially now that you’ve handed them a complete vanilla town PM to compare against those who posted. You were _assuming_ they had one. Now it’s certain. Anti-town, pro scum. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/864 "2010-08-18T14:53:10Z")
> [@Telcontar](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > \ > > > > the question about the accuracy of the vote count because **guiri** questioned it before me (cross post)? > > > > i think that would be highly informative from a town standpoint. i mean is it an administrative error or a function of the game? the fact that i have three names lined up after me but only have a count of (2) and the fact that others have their names listed multiple times means a hell of a lot. and for fuck’s sake before someone chimes in with you are doing scum’s homework for them it doesn’t take a fracking genius to see it. > > > > and why in the world did you include that last bit of information? jeebus. > > 1.) > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > \*\* mod question: were all vts provided the same pm? and if so did you let a certain subset of participants know this fact?\*\* > > That question, not the vote count question. Think before you post. > > And I include it because it would have substantial anti-town implications if we read too much into variation in vanilla PMs or assumed that all PMs that didn’t exactly match ed’s indicated…pretty much anything. oh for goodness sakes. you know that was a bs question that was not going to be answered. because an answer along the lines of nope and scum are aware of that is game breaking. or if the answer is yes they are all the same and i didn’t let scum know that is also game breaking. or if he answers yes they are all the same and i provided scum that information as well changes things a touch. jeebus. when did a little level of sarcasm transcend itself to seriousness? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/865 "2010-08-18T14:53:17Z")
\*\*The vote count is wrong, which is my bad. I’m fixing it. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/866 "2010-08-18T15:01:08Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > jeebus. when did a little level of sarcasm transcend itself to seriousness? Just a heads up peek, sarcasm doesn’t translate well across message board posts. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/867 "2010-08-18T15:01:38Z")
:embarassed: Uh, please check this for accuracy. I have no idea how I messed up so badly last time. This is the vote count, as I have it. \*\* Vote Count: Suburban(8): Telcontar, RedSkeezix, Hoopy, Oredigger, Pleonast, Cucuy, Chipacabra, Nanook USCDiver(2): Drainbead, Gadarene Peeker(2): Natlaw, SpecialEd Astral(2): OneandOnly, USCDiver Pleonast(2): Meeko, Suburban SpecialEd(1): Astral\*\* ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/868 "2010-08-18T15:11:07Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Uh, please check this for accuracy. I have no idea how I messed up so badly last time. This is the vote count, as I have it. > **SpecialEd(1): Astral** \*\*Mahaloth I show three votes for Special Ed. [post=12812105]Post 800[/post] by Peeker. [post=12812881]Post 824[/post] by Chronos.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/869 "2010-08-18T15:15:22Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > No worries. If I’m not able to defend my vote, I shouldn’t be making it in the first place. I do believe, based on the evidence we have here, that Ed is scum. It’d be ridiculous to vote for him if I thought he was town; he helps town just by surviving if he is town, after all. > > OK, 'cause from this post it really looks like you think he’s Town but playing in an anti-town manner: > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > Especially now that you’ve handed them a complete vanilla town PM to compare against those who posted. You were _assuming_ they had one. Now it’s certain. Anti-town, pro scum. I see what you’re saying, Guiri. It was part of an overall post about how suspicious I was finding his actions. I later clarified **why** I had trouble with it. My thought-process is, either he’s scum and already had it (pro-scum action: he looks more townie, any potential third-parties now have it too), or he’s a third party (pro-scum action: he just gave a role PM to the scum, if they didn’t already have it, and he looks more townie). Even he admits there’s no pro-town reason to post it the way he did, at this time. I was rereading Ed’s posts, and I found this: > [@Astral Rejection](#): > > That’s great. Except he posted a win condition identical to yours. And you called him scummy anyway. [Quote=special ed] Yes, but we’ve already determined that the handshaking was worthless, yes? So his having the Town win condition means…oh yeah, nothing. [/quote] Except we hadn’t determined that at the time you made your comments. You won’t decide that the handshake is worthless for another two pages. Your explanation is an attempt to revise what happened in a more pro-special ed light. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/870 "2010-08-18T15:16:07Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > Uh, please check this for accuracy. I have no idea how I messed up so badly last time. This is the vote count, as I have it. > > **SpecialEd(1): Astral** > > \*\*Mahaloth > > I show three votes for Special Ed. > > [post=12812105]Post 800[/post] by Peeker. > [post=12812881]Post 824[/post] by Chronos.\*\* Peeker already unvoted that vote. But By my reckoning chronos is still voting ed. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/871 "2010-08-18T15:25:07Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Peeker already unvoted that vote. But By my reckoning chronos is still voting ed. I’m feeling lazy. Got a post reference for that unvote by Peeker? I know Peeker rescinded his previous vote in 798. You’re not counting that, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/872 "2010-08-18T15:44:40Z")
I think he’s counting this one, on this page > [@peekercpa](#): > > **unvote all** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/873 "2010-08-18T15:49:18Z")
… probably should have taken the red out of that quote. I just quoted it and posted. **Mahaloth: That does not represent an unvote on my part.** Just in case: **Vote special ed** ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/874 "2010-08-18T15:49:18Z")
**peeker** unvoted in 856, but I am still voting **special ed**. Quoth **ed** : > [@](#): > > I suppose it might have been polite for me to unvote you. > > I didn’t. I did wait until I had decided on who to vote for. > > Is that a Scum tell too now? Not only did you wait until you had decided whom else to vote for, even then you didn’t make any mention of the fact that your previous vote reasons were gone. The way you did it looked like “I’m still suspicious of **Chronos** , but I’m even more suspicious of **peeker** ”, not “I’m no longer suspicious of Chronos”. And yes, casting undue suspicion on someone where you don’t actually think it’s warranted is a Scum tell. Honestly, it looks to me like with both me and **peeker** (both of us folks that it’s been easy to get a bandwagon going on in the past), you first decided whom you wanted to vote for, and then went looking for reasons. Your current reasons for voting **peeker** are that you think without any actual evidence that he hasn’t seen the vanilla PM, that you think for some bizarre reason that not being vanilla is a lynchable offense, and that he’s not playing the same way he did the last time he was Scum (this last reason you’re now trying to claim is the primary one, even though you never mentioned it in your vote post). **None of those is a good reason for lynching someone. In fact they’re all good reasons for _not_ lynching someone**. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/875 "2010-08-18T15:49:47Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > > > Peeker already unvoted that vote. But By my reckoning chronos is still voting ed. > > I’m feeling lazy. Got a post reference for that unvote by Peeker? > > I know Peeker rescinded his previous vote in 798. You’re not counting that, are you? I’m running my vote counter right now, both for the sake of correctness and posterities sake. It was post 856. Full vote count to come shortly. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/876 "2010-08-18T15:51:40Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > > [@peekercpa](#): > > > > jeebus. when did a little level of sarcasm transcend itself to seriousness? > > Just a heads up peek, sarcasm doesn’t translate well across message board posts. and i am going to take you task a wee bit here **red**. you’ve been mason with me and you know how i play this durn game. if there really is anyone participating in this endeavor that seriously thought that was a question that was going to get answered then they need to do some homework. either that or they are just picking. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/877 "2010-08-18T16:04:18Z")
Here’s the vote count as i percieve it thanks to my helpful vote counter: **pleonast (2):** [del]peekercpa[/del] [304-328], [del]Astral Rejection[/del] [655-684], Meeko [778], Suburban Plankton [796] **cucuy (0):** [del]peekercpa[/del] [328-445], [del]peekercpa[/del] [447-454] **SpecialEd (2):** [del]Guiri[/del] [345-351], [del]peekercpa[/del] [800-856], Astral Rejection [823], Chronos [824] **Suburban Plankton (8):** [del]Chronos[/del] [372-542], Telcontar [578], Red Skeezix [596], Hoopy Frood [639], Oredigger [643], Pleonast [644], cucuy [739], Chipacabra [774], NanooktheNorthShore [797] **Chronos (0):** [del]Hoopy Frood[/del] [404-506], [del]SpecialEd[/del] [513-808] **Hoopy Frood (0):** [del]Pleonast[/del] [408-644] **USCDiver (2):** [del]Chronos[/del] [585-759], Drain Bead [617], Gadarene [622] **NanooktheNorthShore (0):** [del]peekercpa[/del] [586-798] **peekercpa (2):** [del]Suburban Plankton[/del] [605-796], Natlaw [764], SpecialEd [808] **Astral Rejection (2):** OneandOnly [612], USCDiver [614], [del]NanooktheNorthShore[/del] [673-797] Not Voting (5): Guiri, LittlePlasticNinja, Inner Stickler, MHaye, Peekercpa **Current Lynch Designee** : Suburban Plankton ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/878 "2010-08-18T16:05:28Z")
WoW on **Astral Rejection** (spoilered)[#312](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12796765&postcount=312) Asks about WoWs [#419](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12798967&postcount=419) Is content to disregard **Pleo** ’s claim, is bothered by **Chronos** ’ claim, no reason not to share info [#422](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12798988&postcount=422) Comment on color and recruitment [#474](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12800025&postcount=474) Suspects **Pleo** for asserting his power role status [#504&505](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12800993&postcount=504) Is torn about **Chronos** , suspects **Special Ed** ’ hesitance to let **Chronos** reveal name [#515](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12801365&postcount=515) Corrects **Special Ed** , **Chronos** knows role and identity and therefore doesn’t need to find that player [#518](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12801395&postcount=518) In response to **Special Ed** about **Chronos** ’ push for a name claim, does not trust **Chronos** , is wary of handshaking, **Chronos** ’ role claim and mass name claim. [#521](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12801449&postcount=521) Find **Chronos** suspicious for level of confidence that player X is Town [#597&598](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12804962&postcount=597) Defends low post count, dislikes **Telcontar** ’s “just being themselves” excuse, likes **Chronos** ’s case against **USC** , votes, asks about the 3rd vote [#601](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12805095&postcount=601) Unvotes, **USC** is more town as he volunteered more info [#633](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806153&postcount=633) Defends vote and unvote, admits he skimmed **Chronos** ’ case but doesn’t answer question about inconsistency [#635](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806171&postcount=635) In response to **Pleo** ’s suggestion for a “fellowship claim”, does not see benefit [#640](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806262&postcount=640) Defends vote again, understands that offering up extra info in the handshake doesn’t mean anything without confirmation. Asks **Hoopy** why he suspects **Suburban** over **Chronos** when both are reluctant to share info [#647](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806422&postcount=647) To **Oredigger** , repeats suspicions of **Pleo** and explains reasons for calling out his second claim [#651](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806457&postcount=651) In response to **Pleo** , asks why he made claim [#654&655](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806505&postcount=654) votes **Pleo** for repeating his power role claim, defends original reasoning on vote and unvote for **USC** [#660](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806597&postcount=660) Still wants to know why **Pleo** claimed [#675](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12806886&postcount=675) To **Nanook** , is talking about **Pleo** ’s claim as he’s being asked about his vote. Has a number of reasons for voting **Pleo** : power role claim and suggestion for a “fellowship claim” [#684](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12807253&postcount=684) Unvotes, making suggestions isn’t scummy [#708](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12807914&postcount=708) To me, repeats reasons for voting **Pleo** and adds that he’s made snarky comments, repeats reasoning behind vote and unvote of **USC** , not willing to assume scum have access to a PM - only circumstantial evidence [#734](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12808775&postcount=734) In response to **USC** ’s comment that voting solely on another player’s reasoning alone is scummy, says that he checked afterwards and unvoted [#735](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12808795&postcount=735) To **Hoopy** , explains that most other players were willing to ignore both his reasons for voting **Pleo** , cannot argue further and “neither of my points are terribly damning anyway” [#736](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12808836&postcount=736) Offers possible Town motivation for vote/unvote, saw a similar mistake in HP and wouldn’t make the same mistake [#775](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12811345&postcount=775) Questions **Natlaw** ’s vote of **Peeker** over **Suburban** and if was really just because **Suburban** had enough votes [#819](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12812576&postcount=819) Accepts **Natlaw** ’s explanation. Analyzes **Special Ed** to “see if a case develops” mainly focused on the handshake effort and way he questioned **Chronos** , attack on **Meeko** , his VT claim and sharing his role PM [#823](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12812855&postcount=823) Corrects vote, responds to **Special Ed** about motive for posting PM [#825](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12812885&postcount=825) Further defence, raises concern that a failed handshake hurts town [#830&831](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12812944&postcount=830) More discussion with **Special Ed** [#835](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12813050&postcount=835) Defends vote- Metagaming, his first post was #312, after Day 1 had started. In [#376](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12798309&postcount=376) **Mahaloth** stated that he started the Day “so we didn’t all just sit around with **everyone confirmed** waiting for the Day to start”, I wonder how **Astral** confirmed if it wasn’t in the game thread - He expressed suspicion of **Chronos** in [#504](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12800993&postcount=504), [#518](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12801395&postcount=518) & [#521](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12801449&postcount=521) but then blindly followed his vote on **USC**. A terrible “me too” vote based on an admitted skim of another player’s case. - His unvote makes little or no sense to me. If he was willing to make the assumption that **USC** was a scum with access to a false PM in order to attempt the handshake, the fact that **USC** added further info to the handshake tells us nothing of his towniness. While it’s possible he realized his vote was weak and spontaneously went back and reviewed, it really looks like he either had his chain yanked (which would require Day talk abilities outside this thread) or he realized he’d voted for someone he shouldn’t have - He voted **Pleo** mentioning only his power role claim, he later added further reasons including the suggestion for a “Fellowship claim” and then unvoted when he was told that making suggestions isn’t scummy. When I asked him about his other reasons for voting **Pleo** in the first place, he simply repeated them. When pushed by **Hoopy** , he admitted that they weren’t very damning anyway and most other players were willing to ignore them - While I am in partial agreement with his suspicions of **Special Ed** , his vote doesn’t actually accuse him of being scum, he even states that **Special Ed** of “handed [scum] a complete vanilla town PM to compare against those who posted. You were assuming they had one. Now it’s certain. Anti-town, pro scum.” - Conflicting opinions, voted **USC** for being scum with a false PM, unvoted **USC** for having added to the handshake, commented that we can’t assume scum have access to a VT PM, votes **Special Ed** for sharing the VT PM with scum (among other things), thinks **Special Ed** is scum - I think it’s time to put my vote where my mouth is **Vote Special Ed** I can’t resolve **Special Ed** ’s actions with being Town. While there was possibly a Town motivation for the initial handshake attempt, that disappeared within an hour of the attempt and he should have made that very clear at the time. I think it was an extremely ballsy move for scum to attempt the handshake based on a cover role knowing that it could eventually be deemed a failure but, if they could get a number of confirmed VTs out of the unconfirmed pool, it was probably worth sacrificing one scum. **Special Ed** encouraged the handshaking even after **Mahaloth** had posted so he was aware of its failure well before he came out and admitted it. He’s explained why he chose to handshake based on more than just the wincon but that doesn’t explain why he let **Chronos** fall into the trap of exposing himself as a power role and encouraged handshaking based on the SAHM sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/879 "2010-08-18T16:07:40Z")
\*\*Vote Count: Suburban(8): Telcontar, RedSkeezix, Hoopy, Oredigger, Pleonast, Cucuy, Chipacabra, Nanook USCDiver(2): Drainbead, Gadarene Peeker(2): Natlaw, SpecialEd Astral(2): OneandOnly, USCDiver Pleonast(2): Meeko, Suburban SpecialEd(2): Astral, Chronos\*\* This is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867/880 "2010-08-18T16:12:00Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t have any experience playing with Pleonast, so I don’t have the benefit of hindsight. I can only go off what I’m seeing here. And what I’m seeing is him making a claim, refusing to answer any questions about it, and then defecting several attempts to revisit the subject. My theory regarding his specific intent (implanting a subconscious idea) might be bull, but that doesn’t change the facts of what he did and did not say. (Underlining added.) Please don’t make false statements about what I have and have not done. I have in fact answered questions about my claim. Not liking my answers does not give you the right to deny their existence. > [@peekercpa](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > As I’m an outed Vanilla Town, here is my role PM. It’s useless for handshaking at this point. > > oh for fuck’s sake **ed** if this doesn’t imply you to be town then my dick just fell off. This is a perfect example of very poor logic. **peeker** infers something from **ed** ’s post and then attacks **ed** for saying it, when it is all in **peeker** ’s head. **ed** hasn’t claimed to be confirmed in any way. But if he is town (and scum know if he is), he is outed as vanilla to them. That’s all he is saying. But **peeker** jumps off the cliffs of logic and accuses **ed** of claiming to be confirmed. It’s good to try to make inferences from others’ posts. But please, try to keep them separate from what was actually said. **peeker** ’s argument looks to me like scum trying to get a player lynched by spinning what another said. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I’m glad to see the requirement for unvoting has ensured an accurate vote count.[/snark] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-mafia/549867.md?page=45)