# Lord of the Rings MOVIE fans: What sort of being did you assume Sauron was? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059 "2011-11-15T23:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/21 "2011-11-16T02:31:58Z")
All of the Wizards were Maiar. And there were originally five, not three. The two Blue Wizards disappeared into the eastern lands beyond Mordor. ---
**Author:** ![clarkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@clarkstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clarkstar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/22 "2011-11-16T02:32:18Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I chose “evil elf” because he’s so tall and scary. And everyone knows elves are small, cute, live in trees, and make fudgestripe cookies; the correct deduction would be an evil elf, because he’s compensating for his inherent cuteness and ability to weild huge vats of molten fudge with all that scary, pointy armor by using stilts and growing a goatee. > > I’m kinda in the mood for some cookies now. must have cookies. brb ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/23 "2011-11-16T02:50:53Z")
I read the books long before seeing the movies (so I haven’t answered your poll), but, so far as I can recall, even the LOTR books never really make it clear what Sauron is (or, come to that, Gandalf and Saruman, or the balrog). I don’t think you learn about Maiar and Eru, and all that unless you read the _Silmarillion_. (IIRC, the Valar are _mentioned_ in LOTR - certainly some of the individual ones are - but I don’t think it is ever made very clear what they are.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/24 "2011-11-16T02:51:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :: tests balance of throwing axe :: > > What have I told you about bothering me with facts? Do it often and send for covered bees? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/25 "2011-11-16T02:54:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yes, Aragorn married his great-many-times-over aunt. 😃 That is why “Arkansas” was named after him. > > Damn it. OK, Skald you’re going on my list! Oh, wait, you’re already on it. dammit. And quit stealing my shtick! ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/26 "2011-11-16T02:54:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think for the sake of the little bit of good in my soul I have to pretend you did not compare Sauron to Voldemort. 😉 > > Okay, you thought Sauron was a sorcerer; did you think he was an Elf or a human? Not comparing, just using Voldy as a point of reference. And I thought he was a human. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/27 "2011-11-16T02:55:02Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > A particularly clever hyper intelligent pan dimensional being. You thought Sauron was a mouse?! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lilacs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Lilacs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilacs)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/28 "2011-11-16T13:06:54Z")
Don’t have the books on hand right now, and didn’t vote in the poll, but I think somewhere in the Lord of the Rings someone describes Sauron as a Balrog. Legolas? I couldn’t figure out from the LOTR what a balrog was, let alone who/what Saruon was. It was the reason I decided to read the Silmarillion a second time, after giving up on the first try. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/29 "2011-11-16T13:13:11Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You thought Sauron was a mouse?! :eek: He got better. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/30 "2011-11-16T15:08:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I thought he was a human, like Sarumon. Then I guessed he turned into some sort of Eye, because that’s what you see “die” at the end of ROTK. 😉 > > What was he? Eye Guy? [http://www.grnrngr.com/monsters/pictures/zyu12.jpg](http://www.grnrngr.com/monsters/pictures/zyu12.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/31 "2011-11-16T15:21:16Z")
I did not participate in the poll, for I read the books long before the films were made. I believed Sauron to be a human wizard until I read the Simarrilion, however you spell it, and noticed Skald’s long, bori…(eyes throwing axe)…informative and fascinating posts. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/32 "2011-11-16T15:24:26Z")
Like Gandalf but badder. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/33 "2011-11-16T15:30:45Z")
“Sauron is people!” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/34 "2011-11-16T15:51:44Z")
> [@Monkey\_Chews](#): > > ::Looks at Skald’s post:: > > ::Looks at bookshelf:: > > ::Looks at post again:: > > ::Looks at bookshelf again. Counts number of Lord Of The Rings books on said bookshelf:: > > ::checks meds:: > > ::checks birth certificate:: > > Something’s not adding up here. :: glances sidesways at **Monkey Chews** while loading shotgun :: I’m sorry, did you say something? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/35 "2011-11-16T15:58:25Z")
I’ve read the book, so I answered on behalf of my wife - evil Human Sorcerer, apparently. This would be because she knows the trope from e.g. Star Wars and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/36 "2011-11-16T16:00:25Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I read the books long before seeing the movies (so I haven’t answered your poll), but, so far as I can recall, even the LOTR books never really make it clear what Sauron is (or, come to that, Gandalf and Saruman, or the balrog). I don’t think you learn about Maiar and Eru, and all that unless you read the _Silmarillion_. (IIRC, the Valar are _mentioned_ in LOTR - certainly some of the individual ones are - but I don’t think it is ever made very clear what they are.) I think it’s deliberate that the book doesn’t reveal what Sauron, Gandalf, Saruman, and the Balrog were. Part of its basic conceit is that it was written mostly by Bilbo (Book I was his composition, based on his interviews with the four younger hobbits and Aragon in Imladris); Frodo (all of Books II-IV, and most of Book Vi) and Sam (the end of VI), with some interpolations by Gondorian scholars and by Merry. I don’t think any of those knew the true natures of Gandalf et al. The Elves probably did, and Aragorn may have, but they weren’t involved in the composition. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/37 "2011-11-16T16:23:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think it’s deliberate that the book doesn’t reveal what Sauron, Gandalf, Saruman, and the Balrog were. Part of its basic conceit is that it was written mostly by Bilbo (Book I was his composition, based on his interviews with the four younger hobbits and Aragon in Imladris); Frodo (all of Books II-IV, and most of Book Vi) and Sam (the end of VI), with some interpolations by Gondorian scholars and by Merry. I don’t think any of those knew the true natures of Gandalf et al. The Elves probably did, and Aragorn may have, but they weren’t involved in the composition. It should be noted that one or two of the appendixes hint at the identity of the wizards, if not Sauron, saying clearly that they are not men. I’m not sure if the word ‘Maiar’ appears. As for when I first read the book, it seemed that the wizards were more than human in some indefinable way, and certainly Sauron seemed more-than-wizard. Like a super wizard. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/38 "2011-11-16T16:32:16Z")
[quote=“Regallag\_The\_Axe, post:37, topic:603059”] It should be noted that one or two of the appendixes hint at the identity of the wizards, if not Sauron, saying clearly that they are not men. I’m not sure if the word ‘Maiar’ appears. [quote] I’m almost sure it doesn’t, but I haven’t the book at hand. Anyway, the Appendices were not composed by hobbits (even in the false document conceit). The Tale of Aragorn & Arwen (or is it Arwen & Aragorn) is clearly the work of a 4th Age Gondorian scholar, and the brief bit about the Dwarves’ war with the Orcs over Moria may well be Gimli’s work. I should’ve mentioned that above, but I was distracted by :: takes moment to think up lie :: Welshmen. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/39 "2011-11-16T16:47:02Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I should’ve mentioned that above, but I was distracted by > > :: takes moment to think up lie :: > > Welshmen. I _hate_ it when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059/40 "2011-11-16T16:48:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I should’ve mentioned that above, but I was distracted by > > :: takes moment to think up lie :: > > Welshmen. If you change that quick to “Welsh women…specifically Catherine Zeta-Jones”, they’ll probably buy it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-movie-fans-what-sort-of-being-did-you-assume-sauron-was/603059.md?page=3)