# Lord of the Rings Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [August 31, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174 "2001-08-31T18:53:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/61 "2001-09-06T13:33:42Z")
Why does Radagast have to have had a failing? Does he even appear in Lord of the Rings? He was mentioned only once in The Hobbit, when Gandalf used him as a reference when he introduced himself to Beorn. I know he was mentioned also in LotR, but I don’t think we ever met him. Were we told that he went dark like Saruman did? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/62 "2001-09-06T13:46:24Z")
I was under the impression that Goldberry was some sort of water spirit, or sprite. And totally hot, too, but maybe that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/63 "2001-09-06T14:13:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*Why does Radagast have to have had a failing? Does he even appear in Lord of the Rings? He was mentioned only once in The Hobbit, when Gandalf used him as a reference when he introduced himself to Beorn. > > I know he was mentioned also in LotR, but I don’t think we ever met him. Were we told that he went dark like Saruman did? \*\* We sort of met him, in a flashback with Gandalf. He brought news that Saruman wanted to talk to him about the ring and stuff, just before Gandalf was imprisoned in Orthanc. I never had the impression that he had a failing, in fact, Gandalf says that he was honest and could not be corrupted by Saruman’s whisperings, which (from what I gathered) is why Saruman could use him to capture Gandalf-that any message coming from Radagast could be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/64 "2001-09-06T14:17:17Z")
Well, Radagast certainly didn’t turn to the dark side. But he wasn’t much help in the War of the Ring, was he? I suppose he kept his animals and such safe. “If I doan’ save tha’ wee tur’les…who will??? Ach! Save me from tha’ wee tur’les!!!” But I don’t think that’s what the Valar had in mind when they sent the Istari to Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Payne\_N.Diaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Payne\_N.Diaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payne_N.Diaz)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/65 "2001-09-06T16:08:26Z")
Maybe Radagast’s job was to protect the wee turtles and such–Gandalf saved the higher creatures. I don’t imagine that anything in Middle Earth would have survived intact if Sauron had won. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/66 "2001-09-06T16:15:16Z")
Some random thoughts and notes on Istari (wizards) Radagast failed in his mission. If we look at The Letters of JRR Tolkien in #156 Tolkien discusses the Istari. > [@](#): > > …they should do what they were primarily sent for: train, advise, instruct, arouse the hearts and minds of those threatened by Sauron to a resistance with their own strengths… Gandalf alone fully passes the tests, on a moral plane anyway… This is exactly what Radagast does not do. He instead disappears and becomes enamoured with the wild things. Here he is an angelic being with a high charge and he forgets that and instead communes with nature. Sounds like a significant failure to me. As far as Galdalf’s ‘reincarnation’ as the White goes this is what Tolkien had to say (also from letter #156 > [@](#): > > The ‘wizards’, as such, had failed; or if you like: the crisis had become too grave and needed an enhancement of power. So Gandalf sacrificed himself, was accepted, and enhanced, and returned…Of course he remains similar in personality and idiosyncracy, but both his wisdom and power are much greater…the old Gandalf could not have dealt so with Theoden, nor with Saruman. He is still under the obligation of concealing his power and teaching rather than forcing or dominating wills, but where the physical powers of the Enemy are too great for the good will of the opposers to be effective he can act in an emergency as an ‘angel’…He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar…; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure… Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the ‘gods’ whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed ‘out of thought and time’. So Galdalf’s change from Grey to White was much more than a change in office. On his return he was fundamentally different from the other Istari. In a way he was Eru’s (God’s) personal power ranger. Upgraded and sent back to resolve the issue once and for all. Here is pretty much everything we know about the two blue wizards. An older essay can be found in History of Middle Earth XII - Peoples of Middle Earth > [@](#): > > The ‘other two’ came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two istari were sent for different purpose. Morinehtar and Rómestámo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion … and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [? dissension and disarray] among the dark East … They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East … who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have … outnumbered the West. This is an older essay however and seems to have been superceded by the following from Unfinished Tales > [@](#): > > …for they [the Blue Wizards] into the East with Curunir, but they never returned, and whether they remained in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they were sent; or perished; or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not now known.\* > > - In a letter written in 1958 my father said that he knew nothing clearly about ‘the other two’, since they were not concerned in the history of the North-west pf Middle-earth. ‘I think.’ he wrote, 'they went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Numenorean range: missionaries to enemy-occupied lands, as it were. What success they had I do not know; but I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and ‘magic’ traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron. > > … the two other ‘Blue Wizards’, unnamed, who passed with Saruman into the East, but unlike him never returned into the Westlands; Later Tolkien names the blue wizards as Allatar, and Pallando. AFAIK no direct translation for these names are given. However Allatar is likely formed from Alata (glittering or radiant) and Pallando is identified by Christopher Tolkien as containing Palan (afar). So it seems likely that Alatar=Morinehtar and thus Pallando=Romestamo. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/67 "2001-09-07T17:35:56Z")
**Bartman** , I am impressed! I’ve got to re-read “letters”, it’s been at least 15 years since I last did so, and I’ve obviously forgotten a lot. Have you read all the HOMES, too? QtM ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/68 "2001-09-07T20:06:27Z")
Since nobody’s mentioned it yet, there’s more information on the founding of the White Council in _Unfinished Tales_, which I would highly recommend. Nobody’s quite sure what, exactly, Bombadil is. The best guess is that he’s just in a category by himself (Who is Bobadil? He is.). Goldberry is what would have been called a “fey” in the earlier versions of Tolkien’s works, but she’s one of the last to show up in the five main books (one might argue that Ungoliant and Shelob are also of this category). Fey are as old as the World, but are part of it, being manifestations of nature. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174/69 "2001-09-07T20:46:04Z")
Apropos of nothing, I’ve just received a handsome new hardcover boxed set of the trilogy. I’m determined to read The Fellowship of the Ring before the movie comes out December 19, which with this volume means I must read 4 pages a day between now and then. I know that sounds like a light load, but with all my distractions that’s actually ambitious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lord-of-the-rings-question/79174.md?page=3)