# Lords of Chaos **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 4, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046 "2019-04-04T17:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/1 "2019-04-04T17:43:33Z")
Last weekend I saw [Lords of Chaos](http://https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4669296/), a fictionalized account of when the Norwegian “black metal” scene got very out of hand in the early 90s. It struck me as hit or miss, couldn’t really decide if it wanted to be a biopic / period piece or a horror film. But I found it interesting nonetheless. While never a fan of of that style music - I am still only vaguely familiar with it - I did recall reading about some of the goings on in Europe at that time. I’ve also had passing acquaintance with the NYC goth scene some years ago through a few friends who were involved. Apart from the superficial similarities of dress and such, I notice a strong underlying theme between the two groups - an obsession with “posers” (poseurs?) The movie shows the people in the black metal scene as drawing a big distinction between themselves (“we play TRUE Norwegian black metal”) and others they feel are just adopting affectations. I remember a very similar attitude from my goth friends back in the day. It was like they were trying to be more genuinely depressed and sorrowful than everyone else, but there was also an underlying sardonic vibe. Hard to get a handle on. Can anyone unpack this for me? We see one-upsmanship in politics (RINOs), so is it a normal part of group identification? Or did the black metal guys take this to a different height entirely? Also interested to hear what others thought of the movie, and what they know of the depicted history and events. ---
**Author:** ![HaroldDix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HaroldDix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HaroldDix)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/2 "2019-04-05T18:56:04Z")
No the early black metal scene was insane. Church burnings, Murders, Assasination plans, and a suicide that was photographed for an album cover. Pieces of the suicide victims skull were hung on necklaces and handed to those deemed worthy. It was some of the most crazy stuff ever. Imagine everything a conservative Christian thinks of metal come to life for real. Youtube has a few documentaries on the subject but it’s been awhile since I went down the black metal rabbit hole. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/3 "2019-04-05T19:26:26Z")
Goth has a pedigree via punk rock, black metal is from, well, metal. Those two scenes despite being “hard” rock, had anywhere from minimal crossover to some hybrid genres, but even so the hardcore and thrash fans were mostly separate. So it is with goth and black metal, they were different scenes in mostly different countries. And all these genres has a reaction to what was felt as “watered down” versions of the scene, or co-option by others. I haven’t seen this but watched Metal: A Headbanger’s Journey which touches on BM a bit, and has an extended segment that focuses on it. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/4 "2019-04-06T05:04:39Z")
I’m way not the demographic, but it looked interesting so I went to see it. It was interesting, and pretty shocking too. It was such a crazy story I had to read up on the actual case when I got home. I don’t know if they’re touchy about the story in Norway, but I noticed that even though it is set in Norway, the director is Swedish, and all the main actors are American. I was surprised that even though it was very VERY dark, there are some laugh-out-loud humorous moments in the movie, especially in the first half. Rory Culkin is a very good actor ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/5 "2019-04-06T14:15:54Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Can anyone unpack this for me? We see one-upsmanship in politics (RINOs), so is it a normal part of group identification? Or did the black metal guys take this to a different height entirely? > > Also interested to hear what others thought of the movie, and what they know of the depicted history and events. I’ve not seen the movie, but I did read the [book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Chaos_(book)) a few years ago, and have also listened to [The Last Podcast on the Left](https://lastpodcastontheleftreadinglist.com/norwegian-black-metal/) episodes about the scene. The book obviously goes into more detail, I remember it being interesting. The Last Podcast on the Left goes into it for three episodes, and it’s interesting, and they are also good and emphasizing how they are idiots trying to impress each other with how metal they are and fighting to be the most black metal. As stated [in this article](http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20190213-lords-of-chaos-the-grisly-film-that-has-caused-outrage): > [@](#): > > The most significant factor may not have been Satanism but immaturity. In photos from the early 1990s, the skinny musicians, glowering in their leather jackets and their Halloween make-up, look as if they are copying Kiss and Alice Cooper but don’t have the budget or the sense of humour. They could be auditioning for Spinal Tap: The Next Generation. And as iconoclastic as they professed to be, they went along with the customs of Norwegian society when it suited them. Vikernes’ Burzum recordings were funded by his mother, while Aarseth’s parents bankrolled his record shop. > > Åkerlund has described Lords of Chaos as “a movie about idiots”, and “young boys … doing stupid things”. Arnopp believes that “the whole sorry affair comes down to a combination of peer pressure, small-town teen rivalry, and the urge to rebel against organised religion”. And Hoffin sees the murders and fires as “a macabre competition that got out of hand”. ---
**Author:** ![HowSoonIsThen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@HowSoonIsThen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowSoonIsThen)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/6 "2019-04-06T15:06:00Z")
Not sure when I’ll get the chance to see it legally as it doesn’t appear to be showing round these parts. Will give it a watch when I get the chance. Black metal fans don’t seem to like it from what I can tell. But I also saw that Varg was upset to be played by a Jew, which makes me happy. I want to support it on that basis alone. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lords-of-chaos/832046/7 "2019-04-09T13:37:14Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > While never a fan of of that style music - I am still only vaguely familiar with it - I did recall reading about some of the goings on in Europe at that time. I’ve also had passing acquaintance with the NYC goth scene some years ago through a few friends who were involved. Apart from the superficial similarities of dress and such, I notice a strong underlying theme between the two groups - an obsession with “posers” (poseurs?) I am a major black metal fan. As a teenage metalhead in the 90’s I can tell that an obsession with “poseurs” was commonplace, and amongst the goth/alternative crowd as well. It’s not at all surprising that similar sentiments would be echoed by a bunch of kids in Norway in the early nineties. (Remember, most participants were 17-20 at the time; Euronymous was an outlier, killed when he was 25) This went hand-in-hand with cries of “sell-outs!” whenever a particular band released an album that was deemed to be insufficiently metal.