# Los Angeles and other major cities around the world lacking in sports teams **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055 "2015-11-20T06:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/1 "2015-11-20T06:26:00Z")
The second largest city in the United States has been without an NFL franchise for about 20 years now. Big NBA and baseball town, with a popular hockey team, but not having represent station in the biggest league in the country is a remarkable abberation. Trying to think of other major cities who seem to be under represented in their country’s more popular sports-----immediately I think of Sydney, Australia while being one of the top two most populated cities there, until recently only had one AFL Aussie Rules football team, while rival Melbourne seemed to have half a dozen or so. Birmingham, UK despite having the third largest metro area in England, only has one perpetual Premier League team, Aston Villa, with cups of coffee from Birmingham City and nearby Wolves. I visited Beijing 10 years ago, and despite having a megapolis of like 9 million or so people, seems dot have only one soccer team and one basketball team. Then again, team sports leagues don’t seem all that big in China. What other major cities seem to have plenty of people, but not as much sports? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/2 "2015-11-20T10:04:11Z")
Seattle has been without an NBA team since 2008, when the Sonics moved to Oklahoma City to become the Thunder. The city has no NHL team, either. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/3 "2015-11-20T12:09:11Z")
Los Angeles has USC and UCLA if they want football; they’ll get little sympathy from me. Virginia Beach, on the other hand, has no sports teams at all, and Norfolk has only the minor-league Admirals for hockey and Tides for baseball. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/4 "2015-11-20T12:25:14Z")
Salt Lake City isn’t huge, but it’s one of the three or four biggest metro areas without an NFL franchise, it’s bigger than several cities that do have teams, and it’s probably THE city with the best mix of size and geographical isolation (i.e. it’s much farther from the nearest NFL city than, say, Columbus, OH is) to receive one. But it will literally never happen, thanks to the popular perception that nobody would come to games on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/5 "2015-11-20T14:05:54Z")
Austin Texas is the 11th largest city without a pro team although some people were foolish enough to build a racetrack thinking they could make money hosting an F1 race. Now after three years they are finally realizing what many others have found: doing business with Bernie Ecclestone is bad for you. ``` Washington DC went without a baseball team for 33 years, ``` ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/6 "2015-11-20T14:55:16Z")
San Antonio is the 7th largest city and has no MLB or NFL team. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/7 "2015-11-20T16:37:10Z")
Charlotte is the 17th biggest city. Thanks to expansion, the Carolinas received NFL, NHL, and NBA franchises in the 80s and 90s, but there is still no MLB franchise in that area. Oklahoma City is #27, but only got its first major-league franchise in 2008, when the Sonics moved to town (as Jeff Lichtman mentioned). Milwaukee is #31, and only has MLB and NBA franchises. That said, the Packers are effectively a Wisconsin-wide team, and they played some home games in Milwaukee until the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/8 "2015-11-20T17:34:32Z")
Berlin is the largest city in Germany but doesn’t seem to have a dominant soccer team. Hertha BSC being the most successful, but has spent a decent amount of team outside the top league. Being a divided city certainly didn’t help… ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/9 "2015-11-20T18:03:43Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Charlotte is the 17th biggest city. Thanks to expansion, the Carolinas received NFL, NHL, and NBA franchises in the 80s and 90s, but there is still no MLB franchise in that area. > > Oklahoma City is #27, but only got its first major-league franchise in 2008, when the Sonics moved to town (as Jeff Lichtman mentioned). > > Milwaukee is #31, and only has MLB and NBA franchises. That said, the Packers are effectively a Wisconsin-wide team, and they played some home games in Milwaukee until the 1990s. Sports Franchises are more likely to care about the population of the region, not the city proper. By that measure, Charlotte is 22nd (and doesn’t have an NHL team - that’s in Raleigh, which is 46th), Milwaukee is 39th, and Oklahoma City is 42nd. > **[Metropolitan statistical area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas)** > > Population > > In the United States, a metropolitan statistical area (MSA) is a geographical region with a relatively high population density at its core and close economic ties throughout the region. Such regions are not legally incorporated as a city or town would be and are not legal administrative divisions like counties or separate entities such as states. As a result, sometimes the precise definition of a given metropolitan area will vary between sources. The statistical criteria for a standa... ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/10 "2015-11-20T18:03:45Z")
Pittsburgh has MLB, the NFL, and NHL, but has never had an NBA team. They had a basketball team in the now-defunct ABA. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/11 "2015-11-20T18:11:16Z")
The rest of the country seems to think that we need a Football Team here. We look around and say “Meh.” We’ve already got 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, and even a hockey team, which should be enough to support the sports geeks. We sure as heck don’t want it enough to pay the multi-millions that the teams want us to spend to get them here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/12 "2015-11-20T18:21:27Z")
Las Vegas has no major league teams. I’ve heard it’s an unofficial policy that the big sports leagues follow because they don’t want their sports to be associated with gambling, even if it’s only geographically. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/13 "2015-11-20T18:43:53Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Pittsburgh has MLB, the NFL, and NHL, but has never had an NBA team. _The Fish that Saved Pittsburgh_ forever poisoned that well. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/14 "2015-11-20T18:56:51Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > The rest of the country seems to think that we need a Football Team here. > > We look around and say “Meh.” We’ve already got 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, and even a hockey team, which should be enough to support the sports geeks. We sure as heck don’t want it enough to pay the multi-millions that the teams want us to spend to get them here. Actually you have two NHL teams. ---
**Author:** ![Richey84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Richey84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richey84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/15 "2015-11-20T19:14:24Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > The rest of the country seems to think that we need a Football Team here. > > We look around and say “Meh.” We’ve already got 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, and even a hockey team, which should be enough to support the sports geeks. We sure as heck don’t want it enough to pay the multi-millions that the teams want us to spend to get them here. My thoughts exactly. I know lots of sports fans, particularly Raiders fans, and even they are ambivalent about it. If the NFL comes here, cool. But people outside of LA seem a lot more concerned about it than the locals do. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/16 "2015-11-20T19:38:11Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Salt Lake City isn’t huge, but it’s one of the three or four biggest metro areas without an NFL franchise, it’s bigger than several cities that do have teams, and it’s probably THE city with the best mix of size and geographical isolation (i.e. it’s much farther from the nearest NFL city than, say, Columbus, OH is) to receive one. > > But it will literally never happen, thanks to the popular perception that nobody would come to games on Sunday. That and you would be taking TV coverage from Arizona and Denver. Not enough eyes on the tube in that area to support another area team. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/17 "2015-11-20T19:46:37Z")
I don’t see it as “lacking” so much as I see it as “blessed.” ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/18 "2015-11-20T19:48:27Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Actually you have two NHL teams. Ah! Forgot about the Ducks - if I’m counting the Angels, gotta count them too. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/19 "2015-11-20T21:14:48Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Trying to think of other major cities who seem to be under represented in their country’s more popular sports-----immediately I think of Sydney, Australia while being one of the top two most populated cities there, until recently only had one AFL Aussie Rules football team, while rival Melbourne seemed to have half a dozen or so. Actually, the Melbourne area hosts 10 of the 18 teams in the Australian Football League. There are important historical reasons for Sydney’s apparent under-representation. The Australian Football League used to be called the Victorian Football League, and was, for decades, essentially a Melbourne-based league only. There was very little Australian Rules football played in Sydney, and other cities that did play a lot of Aussie Rules (e.g., Adelaide and Perth) had their own leagues. The game became more national in the 1980s, when the South Melbourne team moved north and became the Sydney Swans, and the West Australian leagues and Queensland leagues each joined the VFL and added teams to the competition. The game was consolidated on a national level in the 1990s, with the renaming to the AFL and then, over time, the further incorporation of non-Victorian teams. While Australians from all over the country now watch and follow the AFL, it’s still Victoria, though, where the game probably has the strongest hold and the biggest and most committed fanbase. You can see a sort of reverse case with the sport of Rugby League, which used to have it main competition comprised entirely of Sydney teams, with another league in Brisbane. These leagues were overseen by the New South Wales Rugby League and the Queensland Rugby League organizations. Now, the competition is called the National Rugby League, and comprises teams from NSW and Queensland, as well as a teams from Melbourne (Victoria), Canberra (Australian Capital Territory), and Auckland (New Zealand). The majority of the teams (9 of 16), however, are located in the Sydney metro area. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055/20 "2015-11-20T22:21:39Z")
Columbus, OH got mentioned above in terms of NFL only. They are the 15th largest city in the country by population. They have had a shitty hockey team since 2000. They do have a professional soccer team but that doesn’t really fit the countries most popular sports criteria. There are no NFL, NBA or MLB teams. By comparison Cinncinnati and Cleveland, that combined have a smaller population, have a total of two NFL teams, Two MLB teams, and one NBA team. There is Ohio State though. I suspect that competition has something to do with major pro sports avoiding the market. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/los-angeles-and-other-major-cities-around-the-world-lacking-in-sports-teams/738055.md?page=2)