# Lose your house, lose your vote: Pubs using foreclosure list to block voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296 "2008-09-12T16:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/1 "2008-09-12T16:24:26Z")
[In Michigan.](http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote) > [@](#): > > The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP’s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day. > > “We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren’t voting from those addresses,” party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed. > > State election rules allow parties to assign “election challengers” to polls to monitor the election. In addition to observing the poll workers, these volunteers can challenge the eligibility of any voter provided they “have a good reason to believe” that the person is not eligible to vote. One allowable reason is that the person is not a “true resident of the city or township.” > > The Michigan Republicans’ planned use of foreclosure lists is apparently an attempt to challenge ineligible voters as not being “true residents.” > > \ > > The Macomb GOP’s plans are another indication of how John McCain’s campaign stands to benefit from the burgeoning number of foreclosures in the state. McCain’s regional headquarters are housed in the office building of foreclosure specialists Trott & Trott. The firm’s founder, David A. Trott, has raised between $100,000 and $250,000 for the Republican nominee. > > The Macomb County party’s plans to challenge voters who have defaulted on their house payments is likely to disproportionately affect African-Americans who are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. More than 60 percent of all sub-prime loans — the most likely kind of loan to go into default — were made to African-Americans in Michigan, according to a report issued last year by the state’s Department of Labor and Economic Growth. :mad::mad::mad: This is a new low, and that’s quite an achievement at this point. After all that happened in 2004, haven’t they learned any shame **yet?!** ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/2 "2008-09-12T16:29:27Z")
I don’t understand. You lose your house due to foreclosure, you’re not living at that address anymore. You may be living in the same district, you may not. What’s wrong with confirming that info? I live in a town, and I get a different ballot from those who have the same city as their address but do not live in the town itself. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/3 "2008-09-12T16:34:51Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I don’t understand. You lose your house due to foreclosure, you’re not living at that address anymore. You may be living in the same district, you may not. What’s wrong with confirming that info? > > I live in a town, and I get a different ballot from those who have the same city as their address but do not live in the town itself. I’m not sure I get this either, although I suspect some of these people may be living out of their cars, which means their foreclosed address is the only one they have. I think the OP may be thinking that _foreclosed_=_in foreclosure_, ie. the local Pubs are trying to disenfranchise people who are _about_ to lose their homes. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/4 "2008-09-12T16:38:52Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I don’t understand. You lose your house due to foreclosure, you’re not living at that address anymore. You may be living in the same district, you may not. What’s wrong with confirming that info? > > I live in a town, and I get a different ballot from those who have the same city as their address but do not live in the town itself. If they’re not living there anymore, and the law says they have to live there if they are registered there, what’s the problem? Can’t they just re-register somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/5 "2008-09-12T16:39:59Z")
Does a homeless person lose the right to vote because he lost his address? Michigan requires registration 30 days before the election. ([cite](http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1633_11619_38093-123989--,00.html#5)) If a person is evicted from his home on October 5th, should he lose the right to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/6 "2008-09-12T16:44:53Z")
> [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > If they’re not living there anymore, and the law says they have to live there if they are registered there, what’s the problem? Can’t they just re-register somewhere else? If they have a new place to live, and time to update their registration, sure. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/7 "2008-09-12T16:46:26Z")
> [@Phatlewt](#): > > Does a homeless person lose the right to vote because he lost his address? Is he (or she) registered at a specific address? Can I go ahead and vote in any state election even though I don’t live there? I wish I could vote in the school district that I work at, but I live in a different school district…specific addresses **matter**. However, do you **have** to register at a specific address? Since voter rolls are made by addresses (I thought), I guess you have to. I honestly don’t know - what does a homeless person do? Wander into any election place? Could someone theoretically go to a dozen polling places with a different name and claim homelessness? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/8 "2008-09-12T16:48:25Z")
The problem, for those who are confused, is that just having a home in foreclosure, **doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t living in it anymore**. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/9 "2008-09-12T16:53:30Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I don’t understand. You lose your house due to foreclosure, you’re not living at that address anymore. You may be living in the same district, you may not. What’s wrong with confirming that info? > > I live in a town, and I get a different ballot from those who have the same city as their address but do not live in the town itself. As noted in the same article, the legality is doubtful: > [@](#): > > One expert questioned the legality of the tactic. > > “You can’t challenge people without a factual basis for doing so,” said J. Gerald Hebert, a former voting rights litigator for the U.S. Justice Department who now runs the Campaign Legal Center, a Washington D.C.-based public-interest law firm. “I don’t think a foreclosure notice is sufficient basis for a challenge, because people often remain in their homes after foreclosure begins and sometimes are able to negotiate and refinance.” > > As for the practice of challenging the right to vote of foreclosed property owners, Hebert called it, “mean-spirited.” But my real objection is that this is part of a pattern of systematic voter suppression tactics the Pubs have been using for at least four years now. See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279927) thread, and [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277079) one, and [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414099) one. Actually, it goes back to [2000.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida,_2000#Controversial_issues_in_Florida) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/10 "2008-09-12T16:57:02Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > The problem, for those who are confused, is that just having a home in foreclosure, **doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t living in it anymore**. Again, the quote from the party official says “foreclosed homes”, not “homes in foreclosure”, which means they aren’t living in it anymore. If they’re really talking about homes which are in foreclosure, then yes, that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/11 "2008-09-12T16:59:04Z")
Are these _foreclosed_ homes, in that the paperwork has been done, the sheriff has shown up, and the house is vacant? Or are these homes that are _in foreclosure_, meaning the process is still underway and the owners are still living there? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/12 "2008-09-12T17:00:38Z")
It seems this could be easily addressed by having \*every \*voter show a current utility bill, just to ensure that they’re still at the address on their voter registration form. You think they’ll do that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/13 "2008-09-12T17:02:12Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > The problem, for those who are confused, is that just having a home in foreclosure, **doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t living in it anymore**. You can, if your registration is challenged at the polls, still cast a [provisional ballot,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_ballot) which in theory will be validated once your claim of proper registration/eligibility checks out – but, as [Greg Palast](http://www.gregpalast.com/kerry-won-ohio-rn-just-count-the-ballots-at-the-back-of-the-bus/) has documented, such are extraordinarily likely to be discarded (and you will never know one way or the other). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/14 "2008-09-12T17:08:32Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It seems this could be easily addressed by having \*every \*voter show a current utility bill, just to ensure that they’re still at the address on their voter registration form. > > You think they’ll do that? You win the thread without making a funny. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/15 "2008-09-12T17:09:03Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It seems this could be easily addressed by having \*every \*voter show a current utility bill, just to ensure that they’re still at the address on their voter registration form. > > You think they’ll do that? Not every voter is a householder paying utility bills. ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/16 "2008-09-12T17:09:57Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It seems this could be easily addressed by having \*every \*voter show a current utility bill, just to ensure that they’re still at the address on their voter registration form. > > You think they’ll do that? No, because it’s a bad idea. What if you don’t pay the utilities at your residence? It may be included in the rent, or you may be an adult living with your parents, or a student in a dorm, or a myriad or other legitimate reasons that someone can’t produce a utility bill for their address. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/17 "2008-09-12T17:11:34Z")
I doubt its about home forclosure as such. The effort is more about securing some sort of credibility for the whole “voter fraud” meme, which is about as threadbare and tattered as it gets. If they can establish any credibility on this, however tenuous, they can establish a cause to monitor voting places for “fraud”, which is the real point of the excercise: they are trying to get a toe-hold to permit their operatives a “legitimate” basis to harrass and intimidate. And, of course, if the foreclosed home is in…certain neighborhoods…that increases the likelihood that the foreclosed voter leans Obama. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/18 "2008-09-12T17:12:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, it goes back to [2000.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida,_2000#Controversial_issues_in_Florida) Voter supression? Goes back a llllooooonnngg way before 2000. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/19 "2008-09-12T17:12:29Z")
> [@](#): > > What if you don’t pay the utilities at your residence? What if you’re one of the many, many people, especially renters, who moved in the interim between the last election and this one, without changing their voter registration, and will simply be going to their old polling place to vote. Why aren’t we interested in stopping \*those \*people? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296/20 "2008-09-12T17:14:07Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Why aren’t we interested in stopping \*those \*people? They’re not disproportionately black. What good would _that_ do us? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote-pubs-using-foreclosure-list-to-block-voters/463296.md?page=2)